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BEST LFIC Impression masters...

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Joe Momma

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Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:31 pm

BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I have a BEST LFIC padlock that I got lucky (and I do mean lucky!) picked twice, now I don't want to close the shackle but still might for the pure TORTURE!

This lock is next to impossible for me over half a year at it off and on and only got it twice by luck...

I am thinking since I could never pick to control, maybe someone could impression this monster for both control and use?

Image

I don't know what it would be worth to whomever is the master my bets on Oldfast however :mrgreen:

I have a WB that I have mastered and could trade maybe?

Image

Image

Or can a BEST LFIC even be impressioned?
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:36 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

Holy giant pictures batman! :lol:

Bests are known as SFICs, not LFIC. Whether the shackle is locked or not makes no difference as you do not need it to remove the core.

Rather than impressioning it would probably be easier to send it to another member to try and pick it to control then have keys made for it. If that fails the core could be drilled out and a new one bought for $5-10 on ebay.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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Joe Momma

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Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:44 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I know that the control position removes the core and that there is no need to have shackle open :)

If I close it I will end up TORTURING myself again trying to pick it and I don't have the correct tensioner to do the control anyway :(
You want me to close it don't ya HA-HA then it will be 3-6 months before I want to let someone else try it..LOL

decisions decisions... buy the tensioner or have someone else pick to control?

Still would like to know if impressioning a BEST SFIC is possible :???:

Sorry 'bout pic size :) limited software on this tablet
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

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Post Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I am sure it is technically possible to impression them but I am not sure how easy it would be due to dual shear lines and master keys.

And the special SFIC wrenches are not needed to pick them to control. Try this guide by Xeo http://www.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=7540&p=65367
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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xeo

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:49 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

Joe Momma wrote:Still would like to know if impressioning a BEST SFIC is possible :???:


That would be a good question for Oldfast. I'm sure if anyone has tried it, he surely has. I don't see how it can't technically be possible, although when impressioning the key you may alternatingly bind between control and the operating shearline which would make it pretty difficult. Just thinking outloud here but you may need to try multiple times avoiding certain markings to try and get new markings to show up for the control shearline... similar to how you pick it.



+1, thanks Riyame. I highly recommend you read that and try it.
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

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jeffmoss26

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:01 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I am by no means an expert on picking, but I have gotten lucky and picked a handful of SFIC locks to control on the first shot. I do not have the control lug wrenches, each time I got the lock to control it was top of the keyway with a peterson prybar.

JM
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:19 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

Hmmm. It would actually be uncharted territory for me. I wouldn't say no... I'm always up for exploration.
Just a little leary of doing it at someone elses' expense. For more predictable results, you may consider Riy's
suggestion before betting on me lol. I don't believe Xeo has come across a Best that has bested him yet. And,
I've seen Selim doing great keywork for Jeff on a regular basis... (although I suspect Jeff may have signed over his
first unborn child to Selim for these services,
lol)

I've been wanting to give it a go. I've a couple of Bests myself, but haven't gone outta my way to get some blanks.
Anyway, I'm always happy to tryn' help & learn something new in the process... but how it would go... hard to say.

Also... congrats on finally pickin' that bastard! Wooohoooo!!!
Last edited by Oldfast on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:23 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I have had SFICs rekeyed by several people, both on this forum and off.
Once you get the core out, the pins can be removed and decoded and have keys cut, or the pins can be dumped and new keys originated.
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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Joe Momma

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

Back to my tormenting demon BEST lock I closed the shackle and hopefully this time when I get her it is to the control shear!

0-6 months who knows or give up and send it, time will tell :)

[EDIT Elbow] Editing an existing post is not the place for that.
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cyrano138

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:03 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

I have one of those as well. It's loaded with security pins for some reason. I don't know if yours is too, but good luck.
"One cyrano video was all that I needed to cure my serratatosus."
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Joe Momma

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:13 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

[EDIT Elbow] Editing an existing post is not the place for that.[/quote]

Actually it did not post when I tried so I added that message it gave and hit "Submit" again after rolling the IP away from that blocked IP, no edits...

Sorry for whatever you may have thought I edited
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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:15 pm

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

It is possible to impression an SFIC. Have impressioned control and change keys for a Falcon, but that was luck for both because some lazy lockie had only made the first pin stack different. Also impressioned a change key for an American padlock with a Best core. Over 20 failed blanks later, still have not impressioned a control key for it. Maybe it will be time to take it out of the impressioning naughty box for another attempt soon.

On the flip side, have only succeeded in impressioning a key (that works) for three of the eight SFIC locks I have attempted. The dual shear lines really mess with you, but I am more experienced than the last time I attempted it.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Joe Momma

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Post Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:14 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

^ kind of what I thought...

<-- Avatar of me trying to pick this BEST padlock... LOL

Giving up tonight she won't pick, but once I get her to control I will then decode her
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xeo

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Post Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:57 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

GWiens2001 wrote:It is possible to impression an SFIC. Have impressioned control and change keys for a Falcon, but that was luck for both because some lazy lockie had only made the first pin stack different. Also impressioned a change key for an American padlock with a Best core. Over 20 failed blanks later, still have not impressioned a control key for it. Maybe it will be time to take it out of the impressioning naughty box for another attempt soon.

On the flip side, have only succeeded in impressioning a key (that works) for three of the eight SFIC locks I have attempted. The dual shear lines really mess with you, but I am more experienced than the last time I attempted it.

Gordon


I'd be interested to know if you tried any specific method with this. Have you tried avoiding certain markings? Have you ever had multiple markings occur at the same time? If you apply the picking theory behind these to impressioning, you would most definitely need to avoid marks to transfer binding force to the control shearline. Really interested to hear more details on the kind of marks you got. Also I can imagine by nature of SFICs, when you turn they key to get marks you are turning in both directions (back/forth) and seeing how one direction gives you control, have you tried only turning the key clockwise for acquiring marks?
Image
The code is hidden in the tumblers. One position opens the lock, another position opens one of these doors...
http://www.youtube.com/xeotech1

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

░░░░░░░░░░░░░Image
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:57 am

Re: BEST LFIC Impression masters...

Unfortunately, as you are turning the key clockwise (for the Best family of cores), both shear lines can impression. It is not uncommon to have multiple markings, especially at the beginning of the impressioning process. I frequently am able to see most, if not all, of the pin locations. Some will mark better than others. Also, just as experience tells you more of what is going on inside the lock by what you feel through your picks, bet Oldfast will agree that your eyes get better at spotting and interpreting marks as you gain experience.

Also, I find I get more, and better, marks by tipping the tip of the key up, bow down, then tensioning the key, and lifting the impressioning handle (or vice grips) followed by releasing tension. Repeat 4 times. Then the opposite - key tip down, bow up, tension, and press down, followed by releasing tension. Repeat 4 times. I get pretty good marks, and more of them, especially for locks that only turn one direction, such as some padlocks.

To my eyes, the marks do not appear different whether it is marking for the operating or control shear lines. This is part of the difficulty I had in impressioning SFIC cylinders. You can attempt privelidge escalation while impressioning. That will be my next attempt at the American padlock that I have not succeeded in making a control key for. Just need to get a box-o-blanks so I have enough to make that trial. Most of the time these days, I only need one blank to impression a lock, but I remember the difficulty I had with the SFIC locks, and want to be prepared.

Since both shear lines can (and do) mark, and in both directions, I think privelidge escallation should be doable. While the key will not turn with mixed shear lines, the marks should at least be reduced when all pins are set, but at mixed shear lines. If I cut one bitting down by a step, just as when you accidentally file too deeply, the impressioning marks will start up again. Then I can file down more and see if the marks go away again, indicating either a master wafer or the other shear line has been found. Repeat for each bitting, and it should, in theory at least, work.

Much better at impressioning now than when I last worked with those locks, and will probably see and interpret marks better. Am also getting another piece of equipment for impressioning that may help a bit. Have played around with one that belongs to a lockie friend of mine, and it seems to be a pretty decent piece of equipment,

The tool is called Martin Pink's Impressioning Tool Kit. The video below shows and explains it, but does not demonstrate what you see, how well it is illuminated (with either white light or UV) or the magnification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BK_hT6jul4

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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