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Oldfast Impressions

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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:03 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Almont Re-Key

Image

Upon removing the core, it was immediately apparent this lock had been "worked" on before. lol
The core looks to be original for the lock (I think).... so why the modifications? Anyone have a clue?
The tail piece has been filed on, and the chambers were deeply beveled with a drill bit or counter-sink.

Image
Image

Also at the tail end of the plug is what appears to be some sort of spiral rod.
After being twisted in, it was cut off, peened, then filed flush with the plug.
Again, I just can't see the purpose behind any of these modifications
and wouldn't mind hearing some of your thoughts. I'm curious!

Image

At any rate.... I cleaned up the insides & loaded it with some new key pins to create a little 'nicer' bitting.
In addition to the user key, I've included a change key to easily remove the core without picking it.
Jeff! Just don't accidentally use this key or you'll end up in a similar situation to Bill's. LOL

Image

The change key is nothing more than a duplicate of the user key, but with a notch cut out towards the tip --
allowing the plug to be turned the few extra degrees needed to align the slot in the plug with the driver pins.

ImageImageImage

* I respectfully request that fgarci03 & GWiens2001 disregard the following paragraph *
You can then insert the appropriately sized/shaped rod. As you push it in you'll feel it ride beneath the drivers.
Once in, press firmly while giving it a little wiggle just to be sure the tip of the rod has entered into a hole
at the very back. Then secure the tool before pulling the core. Here I used a mini bar clamp.
* Ok Filipe, Gordon... go ahead and give to me, lol..... have your fun *

Image
Image

You can now re-pin the core while the tool retains the driver pins in the lock.
Experience helps with these. This is the 2nd one I've worked with.
This time around went smoother than my first encounter.

This is the first of a PILE of locks I'll be working with for Sgt. Mossberg :whip: I'll tryn' post some of 'em as I go along.
Always a pleasure Jeff. And I LOVE the fact that you're never in a rush. Working at my leisure makes it enjoyable.
And it not only helps you out but I gain more experience! Plus I usually get a handful of free locks and blanks
:D
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Altashot

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Location: Western Canada

Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:26 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

A Schlage keyway seems a little strange to me, but I don't know Almont at all.
Do they normally have that kind of keyway?

Imagine this.
Someone tried to fit that plug in it. He wasn't very skilled at pinning so he reamed the chambers.
Then he ground the tail piece to fit, He was running out of patience already, his thumb was sore from reaming.
Then, he forcibly put the plug in the padlock. It didn't quite fit yet, so he used "the bigger hammer".
Now the key was hard to insert and removed, because the end of the plug got pinched together,
so he drove a screw at the bottom of the keyway to open it up again.
Then, with even less patience, maybe even rage, he filed the fu*k out of it with a wood rasp,
rammed it in there and called it a day.

I don't know...
Maybe someone will have a more plausible scenario?

M.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:29 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Oh, so I can give comments? :-D Of course, my comments will be relevant.

The threaded rod put into the end of the keyway and filed flush is to prevent someone from inserting a tool (Filipe...) wiggling it around, and actuating the locking dogs, unlocking the lock.

The lock has been reworked. Pretty sure that when this lock was manufactured, they did not use color coded pins. ;)

Gordon

P.S. What did you think, I would say anything rude or illmannered? Just because you are going for a swim in my sewer, doesn't mean I need to comment on it! :twisted:
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:09 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Altashot wrote:A Schlage keyway seems a little strange to me, but I don't know Almont at all.
Do they normally have that kind of keyway?
I believe a SC1 keyway is common to see in these padlocks.
Seems like I've seen one other keyway too... but I'm not sure.

The milling on the plug (lengthwise slot for tool & vertical slot for rotation barrier pin) looked legit to me.
Guess that's what makes me want to say it's original to the lock. But if that were the case, the back end
of the plug wouldn't need any adjustment.... it would fit fine. Maybe different ball bearings were used?
If they were slightly bigger in diameter than the factory ones, they wouldn't accommodate the plug.
I dunno... just guessing here. It just doesn't add up.

Altashot wrote:Then, he forcibly put the plug in the padlock. It didn't quite fit yet, so he used "the bigger hammer".
Now the key was hard to insert and removed, because the end of the plug got pinched together,
so he drove a screw at the bottom of the keyway to open it up again.
Actually, that makes perfect sense in my mind and totally explains the spiral rod! It would
seem like a solution to undo the damage done by a hammer or vice, or whatever he did.

Altashot wrote:Then, with even less patience, maybe even rage, he filed the fu*k out of it with a wood rasp,
rammed it in there and called it a day.
Funny. I'm picturing this poor fella ready to pull his hair out.
Probably not far from how it all went down actually. lol


GWiens2001 wrote:The threaded rod put into the end of the keyway and filed flush is to prevent someone from inserting a tool (Filipe...) wiggling it around, and actuating the locking dogs, unlocking the lock.
Well on Filipe's behalf, he's not sick enough to do that. But if he did
he would touch two balls (hehe).... and would find no satisfaction.

GWiens2001 wrote:P.S. What did you think, I would say anything rude or illmannered? Just because you are going for a swim in my sewer, doesn't mean I need to comment on it! :twisted:
HahaaAAAA!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Sargent Mossberg
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Location: Cleveland, OH

Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:39 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Nice job Oldfast!
All of my Almont padlocks are Schlage C keyway. I've seen others on eBay, mainly Yale.
macgng: i just thought the cat was a real tiny bear
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4004

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:38 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Ah yes, Yale... that's the other one I've seen before.

Originally, I had planned on putting the sixth chamber to use,
but with the core the way it was I decided to leave it a 5-pin.
Ah well, it works nice and smooth. I think you'll be happy.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4004

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Image

After picking this one I completely mis-read the pins, creating a lot of doubt through the process.
Nevertheless, I just continued trying to trust my marks and eventually ended up with a key.
Notice it's NOT the Kwikset blank you sent, lol. Yes it does fit... but just can't bring myself to do it Jeff!
With a nice old lock like this... it's just wrong! Haha! Like oil and water - they just don't mix.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:42 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Beautiful work, oldfast, as usual. :-)

Have been trying to impression an ABUS Buffo disc lock for a week, used a half dozen blanks. It would stop making marks, but would just plain not turn. It was driving me up the wall. Not the easiest to pick, either. Today, decided I would pick it again, and started by putting a diamond pick upside down and pulling it out, marking the pick at each of the four pin locations for measuring to be sure the spacing was not oddball. That is when I figured out that four pin blanks will not make a key for a five pin lock.
.......................................
.......................................
.......................................
....................................... :oops:
.......................................
.......................................
.......................................

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:43 am

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Beautiful work, oldfast, as usual. :-)

Have been trying to impression an ABUS Buffo disc lock for a week, used a half dozen blanks. It would stop making marks, but would just plain not turn. It was driving me up the wall. Not the easiest to pick, either. Today, decided I would pick it again, and started by putting a diamond pick upside down and pulling it out, marking the pick at each of the four pin locations for measuring to be sure the spacing was not oddball. That is when I figured out that four pin blanks will not make a working key for a five pin lock.
.......................................
.......................................
.......................................
....................................... :oops:
.......................................
.......................................
.......................................

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4004

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:12 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Ah yes, I've done it too! lol

Picking the lock, it felt like four pins. Once picked, I ran my hook over the pins...
again, I felt four pins. But my first wiggle revealed FIVE marks on the key :???:
Made me kinda second guess my 'heightened sensitivity' I THOUGHT I had, lol.

Thankfully Jeff knew better and supplied me with the correct blank. Otherwise,
I probably could've ended up on a week long excursion just like you did. Ha!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Sargent Mossberg
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:21 am

Location: Cleveland, OH

Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:29 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Looks beautiful!!
macgng: i just thought the cat was a real tiny bear
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
<<

GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

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Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Oldfast wrote:Ah yes, I've done it too! lol

Picking the lock, it felt like four pins. Once picked, I ran my hook over the pins...
again, I felt four pins. But my first wiggle revealed FIVE marks on the key :???:
Made me kinda second guess my 'heightened sensitivity' I THOUGHT I had, lol.

Thankfully Jeff knew better and supplied me with the correct blank. Otherwise,
I probably could've ended up on a week long excursion just like you did. Ha!


Unfortunately, did not have Jeff providing the blanks. Had blanks in my collection that worked fine for impressioning some ABUS Diskus locks, and the keyway was the same. As you stated, picked and felt like 4 pins ( a little dirty, so could not hear more than three clicks). Made the mistake of assuming that it was a four pins, and the only blanks I had were four pin. So never saw the fifth pin. :oops:

:lol: We live and we learn.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4004

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:43 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

Finally got around to knockin' out a couple more of your locks Jeff :)
I'll get up a couple pics of the other one soon - it gave me some trouble.


Image

A beautiful old Yale with that nice deep rich patina.
Works just as smooth as the day it was born.
Ya can't help but love a lock like this!
Last edited by Oldfast on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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jeffmoss26

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Sargent Mossberg
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Location: Cleveland, OH

Post Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

You rock!
macgng: i just thought the cat was a real tiny bear
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
xeo: i root for the kernel
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4004

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Oldfast Impressions

One failed attempt (key in the background). My second attempt (still in my key holder) was a success.
The blanks Jeff supplied, as well as all the ones I have, were 6-pin lengths... a little long for this lock.

So during my first attempt, I kept a very close eye on the tip of the blank. If the key is making contact with
anything toward the back of the lock it could interfere with the leverage needed to produce good marks.
However, this was NOT the case and only have myself to blame for trying to work too quickly, lol.
Nevertheless, I decided I might as well shorten up the key for my second attempt just in case.

Image

I decided to use my old Belsaw this time in order to transfer the working key onto one of my own blanks.
Followed up with some more hand filing & sanding - and this classic Russwin is ready for the world again.

Image

Key shortening: I've mentioned this before, but I always try my best to recreate the tip just as it originally was.
Take note of the exact height the point is at, along with how rounded it is. Both these factors play a big
part in aligning the key with the warding - this makes for quick and easy insertion.

I've no idea when I'll get around to a couple more of your locks friend - but I'll post em' as I go :)
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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