Page 1 of 2

Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:27 pm
by Daggers
I've been really into manipulation lately and I just started wondering about electronic safe locks. Are these easily bypassed or the code cracked somehow (besides dusting for fingerprints to see which #'s are in the code)? There isn't too much information online about this. I had a conversation with a friend on how mechanical locks are more secure but then I realized I couldn't give too many points on how electronic locks are insecure since I have no clue! It's just something I've heard as the general consensus.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section! I didn't know whether it belongs in Safes and strongboxes or Bypassing; please move it if it is!

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:44 pm
by echoplot
Depends on the lock. I know some are as easy as popping off the display cover and supplying voltage directly to the solenoid to throw the latch.
I'm sure there are likely some other more sophisticated electronic methods, probably involving attaching a computer system to reset, decrypt or brute force the password.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:53 pm
by Josephus
For cheap ones the only thing keeping it locked is a spring actuated ferrous rod. Pretty easy to put momentum on. This may get you going on those. I have encountered some 'broken' ones when I worked retail years ago. To get them opened I just guessed on the orientation of the solenoid, applied tension to the handle with a bungee cord and dropped em from knee height. Works just fine.

I don't know much about the proper electric combination locks except the high end Mas-Hamiltons seem extremely impressive.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:51 pm
by echoplot
Josephus wrote:...except the high end Mas-Hamiltons seem extremely impressive.


Oh yeah they are!

Forget about bypassing their X series electronic combo locks.
They auto-shutoff after a certain number of bad entries.
They auto-shutoff if not opened within a certain time period.
They auto-shutoff if the dial spins too fast.
Every change in direction starts with a random number. Say you turned right to 35, when you start turning left it might start you out at 76.
Say you decide to make a somewhat covert entry by destroying the lock and replacing it with another, their internals are cast into a resin that has a UV reactive powder mixed into it. These specs of powder are used to positively ID a specific lock like a fingerprint. Photos of each lock's fingerprint are kept by the manufacturer, and likely the end user (assuming Gov't) and compared to ensure that they match what's on the door.
Since they're electronic they have no gate tolerance or forbidden zone, so they truly have 1,000,000 possible combinations.
Currently, as far as I know, the only way to open one without destroying it is to know the combo, or start going down the list and hope you get lucky before you grow old and die.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:30 am
by PhoneMan
Now I want a Kaba-Mas X series to play with!

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:51 am
by Logan
Maybe this will give you some ideas.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:53 am
by GWiens2001
Good locks. Just keep clear of the X-08. Unbelievable failure rate.

Gordon

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:23 am
by Riyame
GWiens2001 wrote:Good locks. Just keep clear of the X-08. Unbelievable failure rate.

Gordon


That is really good to know. I was looking for one to go between my X-07 and X-09.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:05 pm
by GWiens2001
No problem. A friend is a GSA tech (government certified for servicing safes, including 'top secret' stuff). He once told me the X-08 had over a 70% failure rate!!!

Gordon

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:00 pm
by Daggers
Thanks guys! I've been thinking about buying one and experimenting but at the cost of most electronic safe locks, it's not worth it! I knew about the bounce technique but I was talking mainly about bigger safes such as gun safes and the like.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:53 pm
by DR2
It's really absurd what we have become. Speaking specifically about The United States. I refuse to attack other country's stupid laws unless someone from one of those countries start spouting off about us. Oh how we cry for the children! We blame the gun, constantly, for every accident be it freak accident or negligence or act of a psychotic or sociopathic personality. You cannot even sell a set of Lawn Darts on E-bay because they are basically banned by governmental, with an emphasis on mental, regulation. But you can still buy all of these gun safes that little kids can pick up and basically open by inertia. The FDA has what amounts to a SWAT Unit and some time ago raided, complete with automatic weapons, a place selling raw milk but do you think they would do that to Wal-Mart and all of these other entities manufacturing, marketing and selling something far more dangerous than a lawn dart? No.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:43 pm
by Alaphablue
I'm intrested to i got a free drop safe from work but no combo just worn spots on the key pad .

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:15 pm
by directentry
Been looking at one of these, but the price tag is a bit off putting:- http://www.lockmaster-benelux.eu/conten ... appen.html (need bottom of page)

Don't think it would be difficult for someone with knowledge of electronics to make something similar or provide plans to make on up.

Wish I'd of payed attention in school now, lol.

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:19 pm
by Daggers
That looks really interesting! Yeah, I'm sure one could be built for much cheaper!

Re: Bypassing Electronic Safe locks

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:39 pm
by mdc5150
Cheap electronic safe locks can often be bypassed and more often than not in less than a minute. Some of the better locks though will leave you having to drill.

Locks like Amsec and S&G will lock you out after three incorrect combo attempts. There is a 15 minute lockout time and any button pressed in that time resets the timer. Other than dead batteries that is the second most calls I field from our customers about safes.

There is one safe manufacturer (think large gun) that makes a safe that they call a "hanger banger". It can literally be opened with a coat hanger and they still make it and sell it with no fix.