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Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:35 am
by Marduk28
Over the last 5 months or so many people have sent me a link to the video of Ollie bumping the Forever Lock. In fact, due to the way the video was shot, many people e-mailed me thinking that he just hit it with a hammer, and thought a bump key was not even necessary.

When that original video came out I showed it to the designer and he was shocked because he had personally tested the design for bumping but could not do it. After watching the video he even tried again just to confirm, but he still could not bump it. We were both left scratching our heads and didn't know how it could be pulled off.

Bosnian Bill recently put it to the test to get the answer~

Very happy there is now an independent, high quality video, which gives us a new perspective!


Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:35 am
by Isopentylacetate
Great Video! Thanks Marduk :discus: :soldier:

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:31 am
by mercurial
I fully appreciate that people are skeptical of the video showing the Forever lock being bumped, especially since it has been cut & spliced & because it doesn't demonstrate that it is the bump key being used in the lock.

If that was all I knew about the video, I would have strong doubts as to it's authenticity.

However, for those that don't know, the person who made the video is Oliver Diederichsen.

He is the same guy who wrote the 'bible' of impressioning. A highly skilled locksmith, a trusted & well respected person. He is also a well known & active member in European locksport (including SSDev) - this is certainly not somebody that I believe would post fake footage!

After watching Oliver's video closely, I noticed something that Bosnianbill & others may have missed. Oliver has taken back the shoulder of the key (and maybe some of the tip, too).

This may well be what allows him to transfer energy & bump the pins. Bosnianbill points out that he can't get any impact/bump against the pins, nor travel of the key.

I think this should be looked into in more depth, before calling Oliver's video a fake.

...Mark

EDIT : to be clear, Marduk - I know you never called Oliver's video a fake, my post isn't specifically directed towards you.

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:37 am
by Marduk28
Thanks for your input Mark, Very much appreciated! :smile:

As you said, Ollie is a master. He has great knowledge and great skill so he may have more information regarding his process.

One problem that I saw when Ollie's video came out is that the majority of the people who saw the video didn't know who he was. They thought he was just a random customer in his garage. Also, the way the video is shot was not very clear and gave some people the wrong impression about the work needed to be done.

One reason I like Bill's video is that it is very clear and gives a new perspective. Also, we all know Bill doesn't show mercy to locks~ so it's nice to see it hold up against his attempts.

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:48 am
by mercurial
One further idea - after removing some of the key's shoulder & a little off the tip, a small square of rubber, a few mm thick, could be placed on the back of the key. The idea being that the key will reach the fully inserted position, before the actuator of the lock that pushes it in has reached the limit of it's travel. That way, when it is struck, it still has room to move forward & the rubber can compress enough to allow the key to bump forwards.

Alternatively, remove the blade of the key from the handle & reattach it such that it is forward a little, with the same goal - getting the bitting under the pins & ready to bump, whilst the lock's actuator can still travel forwards.

It has been suggested elsewhere that deep cuts in the bitting of the lock Bosnianbill is using could render his lock harder to bump. As with conventional pin tumblers, simply making the cuts on the bump key a little deeper than the maximum depth should solve that problem.

I hope I explained that well enough & it makes sense.

...Mark

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:33 pm
by Oldfast
I'm not real 'up' on bumping. Nevertheless, this is interesting.
I'm curious to see what the final verdict will be on this.
Either way... still a VERY neat & different lock!

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:48 pm
by huxleypig
Is it me or is he not actually bumping there? I do not see him pulling back on the key loading chamber? Surely that's what he needs to be doing? Simply hitting it with a hammer will never work. Unless he is trying to rap the lock open?

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:43 pm
by MrAnybody
Hummmm, only saw this today. Looks like Deviant has been having a play :D


Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:53 am
by ForSquirel
I saw Deviant's new attack on this lock. Pretty much shamed the lock.

Re: Forever Lock Bumping? Bosnian Bill puts it to the test.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:40 pm
by Papa Gleb
Great discussion and addition to this story. I personally never bumped a lock but did do some research and if not mistaken, not all bittings can be bumped so I think if Bill had more than one, he would have been able to make a better review.