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3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:12 am
by escher7
They say this is made from a picture of the keyway, but don't show that part:

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/26/3d-pri ... -shor.html

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:13 am
by Anarchy_won
you can copy a key but a bump key made from a 3d printer will break off in the lock.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:17 am
by escher7
Anarchy_won wrote:you can copy a key but a bump key made from a 3d printer will break off in the lock.


The video shows you are incorrect.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:54 pm
by GWiens2001
Probably depends on the material used to print the key. There are even 3D printers that print in metals.

Gordon

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:22 pm
by ForSquirel
Considering you can 3D print a firearm, 3D printing a bump key doesn't seem far fetched

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:40 pm
by Josephus
When something is said to be quickly 3D printed, most people don't think of nylon prints from shapeways. That would actually be slower and probably more expensive than just cutting it from brass. An app that can generate a bumpkey is not compelling work. OpenCV and a library of key profiles is not impressive. To top it all off the claim that these can be used for high-security locks is laughable. Sure, anything at home depot that says high-security on the packaging, but I would like to think everyone here knows how useless bumping is beyond that caliber.

It is just sensationalist journalism. As a general rule, if a writer can't be bothered to put in at least 1000 words on a subject, it is not worth reading.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:45 pm
by Mikeh727
Josephus wrote:When something is said to be quickly 3D printed, most people don't think of nylon prints from shapeways. That would actually be slower and probably more expensive than just cutting it from brass. An app that can generate a bumpkey is not compelling work. OpenCV and a library of key profiles is not impressive. To top it all off the claim that these can be used for high-security locks is laughable. Sure, anything at home depot that says high-security on the packaging, but I would like to think everyone here knows how useless bumping is beyond that caliber.

It is just sensationalist journalism. As a general rule, if a writer can't be bothered to put in at least 1000 words on a subject, it is not worth reading.



You're probably right that this method is slower and more expensive. High-security locks? Well if a lock isn't bumpable with regular bump keys, it isn't going to be bumpable with these keys either. But the key worked in the video, and what strikes me is that someone with a picture of the keyway can make bump keys without the skill set required to file them themselves, and that's if they had quick access to the correct blanks in the first place. It's just one more chink in the armor of 'security', and that's what I understood to be the point of the article and demonstration.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:27 pm
by Deadlock
It's just this weeks bump key scare story. I take the video at face value. I believe it's 'real'. But how many videos and how many bump keys did they go through before they got it right? More than one, I'll bet. Man, it's amazing break ins still happen with all these magic keys about. *rolls eyes*

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:27 am
by escher7
Anyone who has seen Marc Tobias bump Medico knows that high security lock is vulnerable. Medico has claimed the video was rigged but Tobias denies it. As for dimple locks, the robbers in the great Belgian diamond heist used a filed hex wrench to bypass a dimple lock in a very high security situation. It wasn't a bump key, but raking the lock was very similar to bumping. High security often just means security pins which are also susceptible to bumping.
For my money something akin to the Abloy Protec2 is one sure way of avoiding the technique. Anything with a standard pin tumbler setup, unless it has very good sidebar protection, could be opened by bumping. And even then, Medico's sidebar did not stop Tobias.
I do agree however, that these articles aimed at normal consumers, are not very relevant as destructive entry methods are what the average burglar uses. And commercial premises are more and more using very high security, as their locksmiths are quite aware of the bumping threat.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:44 am
by Josephus
Of course Medicos can be bumped. Tobias must have gotten them from his Rolax watch dealer. Now excuse me while I put on my Oaklies. :cool:

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:47 pm
by youluckyfox
Josephus wrote:Of course Medicos can be bumped. Tobias must have gotten them from his Rolax watch dealer. Now excuse me while I put on my Oaklies. :cool:


:lol:

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:32 am
by Gorbag
I was under the impression that the pins were the defense against bumping? Changing weights, shapes, spring strength etc.

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:42 pm
by MrAnybody
I thought to follow up on this thread, and the software created by 'decoder' (AKA Christian Holler) from SSDeV locksport in Germany. He gave a great demo on 3D printing of the bump key of a restricted or regular keyway at LockCon recently.

One of the main issues of this vulnerability is that it requires no knowledge or skills in locks to use it. All you need is this piece of software, a photo of the keyway, the manufacturer's spacings (which may also be in a future update of the software), and a high quality 3D printer. The most difficult point of those is having a high enough quality 3D printer, but even that can be taken care of by getting a service like shapeways.com to take care of it for you, and ship the keys to you.

In short, if the security of someone's lock is dependant on it being a restricted key, this is definitely vulnerable with this type of attack (along with some others), and it will only get cheaper to duplicate in the future.

Here's a close-up one of the keys I got from decoder, which is the same as he demo-ed.

Image

The key is for the Abus E20 / E30 Series, which will replace the C83 Series. The quality is extremely good. Of course, they won't stand up to the punishment that steel or brass bump keys could take, but they're certainly durable up to a point. In fact, in the tests we did, they worked better than steel keys. We were unsure why exactly, but some of the guys were bouncing around the idea that it travelled faster in the keyway since it's lighter, or because of some slight expansion as it was struck.

An article published in Wired on decoder's work on this: http://www.wired.com/2014/08/3d-printed-bump-keys/

Here's me testing the key on the Abus E20 out of the packet today:


Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:14 pm
by GWiens2001
Nice demo, MrA. Certainly lends credence to the quality of the software.

Gordon

Re: 3D Bump Key

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:45 pm
by Deadlock
I just watched the video. Well - fair enough - I'm convinced. As far as the longevity of the key goes, if somebody was using it to break in somewhere it would only need to work once. However, I would still maintain that this is James Bond stuff to the average crim. Crowbars are about the most advanced technology these boys use. Still, it's undeniable that this does show a security flaw in an otherwise restricted keyway.