"The Ultimate Lock"

[KokomoLock]

You have to manually grab the deadlock knob, pull it out, then turn the thumbturn to unlock the door. I know for commercial applications you have to have one motion egress, but I don't think that applies to residential. I will have the pics up later this afternoon.

[the lockpickkid]

You have to manually grab the deadlock knob, pull it out, then turn the thumbturn to unlock the door. I know for commercial applications you have to have one motion egress, but I don't think that applies to residential. I will have the pics up later this afternoon.

Cool thanks for the info, very good information to know! I don't know exactly what laws apply for the residential either, I was just trying to think outside the box on an alternative way!! (that won't work!!)

[UltimateOwnage]

http://WWW.THEULTIMATELOCK.COM

Hey Harvey, I've read your forums. Wow ya'll are some tough guys. I'll be posting a comment shortly but wanted you to know that we accept your challenge.
http://WWW.THEULTIMATELOCK.COM

The creator of the this lock is a 10 year veteran of the Sheriff's Dept. After responding to 'thousands' of home invasions which your forum seems to have confuse with burglary. He worked with NASA engineer's and investors and created The Ultimate Lock.

A home invasion is that you have been targeted, they know you are home and want you home. A burglary is when no one is home, they don't want you home and as you know, they'll go through doggie door's, chimney's or windows.

Now Home Invaders won't go through a window, leaves evidence behind such as DNA and alerts you to their presence.


Utilizing the door frame with a solid door, cast iron steel enforced double lock and anti bump feature, Capt. Ron had his sweat, tears and life into the 4000 series, that is the lock that goes across the door. From that model we have the 3000 series in which your forum attempts to berate with abuse...verbal abuse.


The Lock is angry, and gladly accepts your challenge.


We have terms though to make sure this is a fair fight and not rigged. So I am imploring YOU as moderator.


You will make sure that the frame and door are solid wood, that installation of the product is done PROFESSIONALLY and to specs. (no cutting corners-average time to install is twenty to thirty minutes)


That this will be video recorded from start to finish. That once your installation is complete you then will begin 'assaulting the door with everything you have.


Sledge hammer, car jack, your foot, drill bit, pick gun, modified bump keys, modified drill bits. What ever you have use.


This will be documented.

I do need you to sign a waiver that in the event that you injury yourself, shattered knee cap or anything of this nature...YOUR ON YOUR OWN.

That pop a lock video was TWO HOURS LONG. we condensed it down to six minutes.


Now to answer your questions.http://WWW.THEULTIMATELOCK.COM


Hey mate, Harvey here from Australia.

I'm a practicing locksmith, and cover an area about 4,500 square km's.Awesome, I'll gladly wholesale the product if you can cover this plus shipping.

Just some questions about your 3000 series Residential Ultimate Lock. shoot.

What types of doors are you using in your kick tests? solid doors, like you would find on your front and back door with existing frames.
Are there any modifications you do to the door? Nope
Do you use any above-standard materials in\on your doors or framework
when doing your battering ram tests? Nope
What functions do you use to stop the deadlocking button from being
manipulated from through the door, by use drilling attack?Did you see the drill snap and break? Reinforced cast iron steel, it would take over an hour to two hours to, "drill". Unless the criminal has this much time, The purpose of the lock is to take the element of suprise AWAY.


It takes 1.7 seconds to enter a home in a Kick in. The criminals that do this train for it, practice it. They know what they are doing, how to do it and get it done.


So, while you are helping your wife or watching TV or checking emails, BAM!!! someone just kicked in your door. You get up, realizing that you have intruders... they are already pointing a gun in your face. Its that fast.


Our lock prevents this: by when they kick, or use a bump it takes that element of surprise away.

you now have the time to get your family safe, unload the bird shot from the gauge, and replace it with, i prefer 3"mags, but someone quoted using 2"..fine and go handle business.


Primarily calling the authorities alerting them of the situation.


A member from KeyPicking.com, "KokomoLock", has claimed to have picked
your unmodified Ultimate Lock 3000 series deadbolt cylinder.
Do you have any comments on this? Really, where is his proof? We have ours. I say ask him to put his money where his mouth is. If you are inside, he can pick ALL he wants. If you noticed the Pop A Lock Video, THEY TRIED PICKING IT FIRST...it was after this that they THEN went drill happy nuts.

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and
"pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some
other security factor? Yes, this feature has to be engaged, but using our patent six pin feature is also extra security. You might get three/four pins a lined, but all six in a timely manor....

Are you considering making a double-cylinder version, for greater
usage and application? I'm afraid this question is above my realm in technicality, could you be more specific in what you are asking?

Currently there is a discussion going on at KeyPicking about your
lock, and your Pop-A-Lock demonstration video.
(here viewtopic.php?p=18429#p18429 ) I love this, thank YOU so much!!!!


Disclaimer: this email will be posted in it's entirety on
http://www.keypicking.com for the public to view. Thank You, I've done the same. Tag!!! your it!!!!





Alex Maddox
http://www.theultimatelock.com
Global Marketing/Sales
AMaddox@TheUltimateLock.com
713.266.1400 ext.108
832.368.6370

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Ultimate Lock Questions
From: "Harvey ..." <guterclown@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, October 11, 2009 6:14 am
To: AMaddox@theultimatelock.com

Hey mate, Harvey here from Australia.

I'm a practicing locksmith, and cover an area about 4,500 square km's.

Just some questions about your 3000 series Residential Ultimate Lock.

What types of doors are you using in your kick tests?
Are there any modifications you do to the door?
Do you use any above-standard materials in\on your doors or framework
when doing your battering ram tests?
What functions do you use to stop the deadlocking button from being
manipulated from through the door, by use drilling attack?

A member from KeyPicking.com, "KokomoLock", has claimed to have picked
your unmodified Ultimate Lock 3000 series deadbolt cylinder.
Do you have any comments on this?

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and
"pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some
other security factor?

Are you considering making a double-cylinder version, for greater
usage and application?

Currently there is a discussion going on at KeyPicking about your
lock, and your Pop-A-Lock demonstration video.
(here viewtopic.php?p=18429#p18429 )


Disclaimer: this email will be posted in it's entirety on
http://www.keypicking.com for the public to view.


Cheers, Harvey.

[KokomoLock]

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and
"pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some
other security factor? Yes, this feature has to be engaged, but using our patent six pin feature is also extra security. You might get three/four pins a lined, but all six in a timely manor....

Could you explain the patent 6 pin extra security feature a little more please?? When I picked the lock the same day I received it from H.L. Flake, it was on my workbench not installed with the deadlock button engaged. After I picked it and took it apart, there are 6 standard key pins, and 3 of the 6 top pins are security spool pins with very shallow spools. What part did you patent???? Thanks for you time.

[UltimateOwnage]

Could you explain the patent 6 pin extra security feature a little more please?? When I picked the lock the same day I received it from H.L. Flake, it was on my workbench not installed with the deadlock button engaged. After I picked it and took it apart, there are 6 standard key pins, and 3 of the 6 top pins are security spool pins with very shallow spools. What part did you patent???? Thanks for you time.

Lockylew: Fixed Quote

The patent is for the anti bump anti pick feature. This is the extra security. It takes the element of surprise away. Not being home, its just a burglary, being home, while they are breaking in, is a Home Invasion. With this engaged, you can pick all you want...you are not getting in.

Now most criminals do not have the experience, patience and time that you used in picking the lock, with out the engaged feature by the way.

Next question.

[UltimateOwnage]

Friend, I know you and know that I can count on you, first I'd like to share this with you, and then I'd like to ask if you can forward this to all your friends. Have them mention that that they learned of our lock from you and I will reward you with a commission from each referral. Help be part of the solution and not a victim to Home Invasion.

[EDIT:

Alex: As site owner, I am going to remove your post as I consider this just blatant spam and free advertising for your business. I have no problem with you coming on the site and adding your expertise to the knowledge pool, but when you start soliciting members through my portal to be part of your commissioned sales team, then I draw the line.

Normally, I permanently ban spammers. But, I will let it slide this time and let it go with a warning.

Keypicking is a locksport site, and as a result I don't want the membership or anyone else thinking that we are in bed with a specific lock manufacturer, or distributor.

ADVISORY: I will be posting a copy of this correspondence on the webpage so that the other members may read it and understand why this action has been taken.

Sincerely,

HC ]

[the lockpickkid]

Ok, my turn! First I would like to thank you, UltimateOwnage for taking the time to address all of our questions. My question is this: KokomoLock says he picked the lock with the button engaged for the deadlock feature, I am wondering what your response is? Also, you say that it has bump proof technology, when the lock was disassembled, there were no obviouse anti-bump pins, is the lock only un- bumpable with the button engaged or is this a full time anti-bump? Also what exactly has the patent? There are several manufactures that have 6 pin locks with spool pins. Thank you for your time.

Sorry, I posted at the same time as you, you may have answered some of this already!

[ToolyMcgee]

Next question: Do you think it was wise to throw down the gaunlet in the open forum of a site where there are lock manipulators picking real high security locking cylinders?

[the lockpickkid]

Some of what I want to know has already been asked, but for some reason some questions are being avoided of being answered. I am leaning toward a little of what I think Tooly is hitting on, with some members here that can pick Medeco and other true high security locks, there is now way this lock can sit on a shelf beside a Medeco or a Primus. I just can't believe all the hype about this lock anymore, it just doesn't all add up. I am done with this one.

[the lockpickkid]

Striking similarities, is this the same guy??










Lord, please forgive me, I apologize....GIT-Er-DONe!!!

[KokomoLock]

http://WWW.THEULTIMATELOCK.COM

[/color]
A member from KeyPicking.com, "KokomoLock", has claimed to have picked
your unmodified Ultimate Lock 3000 series deadbolt cylinder.
Do you have any comments on this? Really, where is his proof? We have ours. I say ask him to put his money where his mouth is. If you are inside, he can pick ALL he wants. If you noticed the Pop A Lock Video, THEY TRIED PICKING IT FIRST...it was after this that they THEN went drill happy nuts.

I already put my money where my mouth is when I purchased your lock. Here is the video of your Ultimate Lock being picked and opened from a deadlocked state in approximately 2 minutes.

Now most criminals do not have the experience, patience and time that you used in picking the lock, with out the engaged feature by the way.

The engaged super feature you are refering to took all of 30 seconds to bypass.

If it would not be too much trouble, could you get me a RMA number to return the lock??????

[Solomon]

A home invasion is that you have been targeted, they know you are home and want you home. A burglary is when no one is home, they don't want you home and as you know, they'll go through doggie door's, chimney's or windows.

I agree with what you say here completely. However, in 99% of home invasions (at least here in the UK), attackers will knock on the door and wait until the occupant has opened it slightly ajar before forcing their way in. I've never read a single documented case of a home invader just walking up to a door and kicking it in just like that. I'm not saying it's never happened, as it probably has from time to time... but what I'm getting at is that any time we hear about these things happening, the owner opened the door to see who was there and the intruders then forced their way inside. Any comments on this?

The ultimate lock is at its strongest when the door is closed, correct? What features are there in place to stop someone using the technique I just described? I'm not doubting the strength of your lock one bit, I was definately impressed by that... but if the door is open a little, like in that scenario, the strength of the lock (or the door) is pretty much irrelevant. It's then up to the safety latch/chain or whatever secondary measure is in place.

Now Home Invaders won't go through a window, leaves evidence behind such as DNA and alerts you to their presence.

Your argument is a bit contradictory of itself here. Home invaders won't break a window to get in, as this alerts you to their presence and leaves evidence - but kicking the door doesn't? Home invasions are about fear, intimidation and surprise. You said it yourself, they know you're home and they WANT you to be. If they see the ultimate lock, and they want in, what are they gonna do? Walk away with their heads hung in defeat, or go round the back and smash a window to get in? Or are they just gonna knock the door and force their way in when you answer... hopefully you can shed some light on how your system counters this method of attack. After all, it is the most common.

It takes 1.7 seconds to enter a home in a Kick in. The criminals that do this train for it, practice it. They know what they are doing, how to do it and get it done.


So, while you are helping your wife or watching TV or checking emails, BAM!!! someone just kicked in your door. You get up, realizing that you have intruders... they are already pointing a gun in your face. Its that fast.


Our lock prevents this: by when they kick, or use a bump it takes that element of surprise away.

I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate what I just pointed out. They see the ultimate lock, they know it can't be forced, so they find a secondary point of entry or simply knock the door. Criminals aren't THAT stupid.

Really, where is his proof? We have ours. I say ask him to put his money where his mouth is. If you are inside, he can pick ALL he wants. If you noticed the Pop A Lock Video, THEY TRIED PICKING IT FIRST...it was after this that they THEN went drill happy nuts.

His proof is in the picture he took of the cylinder in its fully picked position (now in the form of a video!). You are correct, if you're inside and have the button engaged, there is no way the lock can be picked. However, this is no different to any other lock on the market which has this deadlocking feature. If someone wants to pick/bump the lock and get in while you're away, they can do so relatively easily.

And yes, I did say BUMP. Your lock doesn't have a restricted key profile, as a matter of fact it uses an extremely common one - the SC4. Anyone can get their hands on a suitable blank or old key without having to buy one of your locks to get them. Factory made bump keys are easily available online aswell.

I don't see any anti-bump features whatsoever other than the lock being deadbolted from the inside. Again, this is not unique to your lock. The old nightlatch from my front door deadbolted when you pressed the little button, and it was at least 15 years old. Gimme a break... it's sure as hell not as strong as your lock, but it definately offered the same level of pick/bump resistance.

If you wanna make your lock REALLY "pick proof", get some serrated/spooled key pins aswell as drivers, and for the love of god put more than 3 in there. If your lock isn't deadbolted (ie. will operate from the outside with the key so the owners can get in), I guarantee it can be picked in well under 2 minutes.

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and
"pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some
other security factor? Yes, this feature has to be engaged, but using our patent six pin feature is also extra security. You might get three/four pins a lined, but all six in a timely manor....

So, if the owner isn't at home or has forgotten to deadbolt the lock, the lock still offers resistance to picking and bumping in the form of 6 pins as opposed to 5, and 3 of them are security pins. Is this correct?

That may sound good to you or someone who doesn't know jack about locks, but when you consider the security pins are simply spooled drivers (shallow ones, at that) and all normal key pins, it doesn't sound so great. I have a little saying which you might wanna read over a couple of times... if it operates with the key, it can be bypassed without that key. PERIOD.

How much do you actually know about how picking and bumping work? You can't simply say it's bump proof because it has 6 pins... there are legitimate bump proof locks on the market. Your lock doesn't even contain bump dampening pins. If the owners forget to deadlock it, or they're not at home, this feature cannot be in place and the lock is therefore fully operational from the outside with the use of the correct key (and therefore also fully open to manipulation by use of bump keys or picks). Comments?

On the picking side of things, you're basically saying it can't be picked because it has 6 pins. That is no defense whatsoever. Can we see the patent? Kwikset Ultramax also has 6 pins, 3 of which are spools. exactly the same. Security pins are a patented technology, but it certainly isn't yours.

[UltimateOwnage]

http://WWW.THEULTIMATELOCK.COM

[/color]
A member from KeyPicking.com, "KokomoLock", has claimed to have picked
your unmodified Ultimate Lock 3000 series deadbolt cylinder.
Do you have any comments on this? Really, where is his proof? We have ours. I say ask him to put his money where his mouth is. If you are inside, he can pick ALL he wants. If you noticed the Pop A Lock Video, THEY TRIED PICKING IT FIRST...it was after this that they THEN went drill happy nuts.

I already put my money where my mouth is when I purchased your lock. Here is the video of your Ultimate Lock being picked and opened from a deadlocked state in approximately 2 minutes.

Now most criminals do not have the experience, patience and time that you used in picking the lock, with out the engaged feature by the way.

The engaged super feature you are refering to took all of 30 seconds to bypass.

If it would not be too much trouble, could you get me a RMA number to return the lock??????

Okay....you have us here, but I have to ask. If the criminal is first aware of where to drill.

Meaning that you are going to break into the house. Do you think they would of known to drill here? I'm afraid not.

Now I have to ask my self is, would a criminal actually take this time to 'gain' entry?

The only reason you knew this was because of your talents in engineering and locking mechanics.

Criminals are looking for quick highs and fast dollars.

Funny Pop A Lock didn't think about this and will have to see how this pans out.

Nicely done by the way.

email me your contact information and business address, I'd like to see how far we can take this.

[the lockpickkid]

Funny Pop A Lock didn't think about this and will have to see how this pans out.

No, it really isn't funny. Pop A Lock does not have as skilled of people, maybe a few, but not any that were in your little film. I can, will, and have picked more and better locks than them, they won't even hire me to work for there company!! Yes, I have tried once upon a time.

[UltimateOwnage]

A home invasion is that you have been targeted, they know you are home and want you home. A burglary is when no one is home, they don't want you home and as you know, they'll go through doggie door's, chimney's or windows.

I agree with what you say here completely. However, in 99% of home invasions (at least here in the UK), attackers will knock on the door and wait until the occupant has opened it slightly ajar before forcing their way in. I've never read a single documented case of a home invader just walking up to a door and kicking it in just like that. I'm not saying it's never happened, as it probably has from time to time... but what I'm getting at is that any time we hear about these things happening, the owner opened the door to see who was there and the intruders then forced their way inside. Any comments on this?

In south Texas to this date, we have had over 648 Home Invasions, 45% percent resulted in murder of the occupants. You hear someone 'banging' on the door, you just open it? Thats not wise and yes I've heard of scenarios where occupants did, and regretted it. However majority do not just open the door.

The ultimate lock is at its strongest when the door is closed, correct? What features are there in place to stop someone using the technique I just described? I'm not doubting the strength of your lock one bit, I was definately impressed by that... but if the door is open a little, like in that scenario, the strength of the lock (or the door) is pretty much irrelevant. It's then up to the safety latch/chain or whatever secondary measure is in place.

Three inch and a half screws marry the strike plate at 30 degree angle, adding additional resistance to any force added. You can actually get a tremendous amount of information about our lock on the website http://www.theultimatelock.com unfortunately we do not nor did we think of what you guys did...

Now Home Invaders won't go through a window, leaves evidence behind such as DNA and alerts you to their presence.

Your argument is a bit contradictory of itself here. Home invaders won't break a window to get in, as this alerts you to their presence and leaves evidence - but kicking the door doesn't? Home invasions are about fear, intimidation and surprise. You said it yourself, they know you're home and they WANT you to be. If they see the ultimate lock, and they want in, what are they gonna do? Walk away with their heads hung in defeat, or go round the back and smash a window to get in? Or are they just gonna knock the door and force their way in when you answer... hopefully you can shed some light on how your system counters this method of attack. After all, it is the most common.[/quote]

Again, the element of surprise. If they 'kick' in a door. The are already in your house on you by time you realize your door just got kicked in. I mean I've been raised around guns since I was about three years old. You can not tell me you would be able to defend your self from five gangsters or assailants who are intent of taking you down in one second...Jackie Chang usually takes six of seven minutes...You faster then Chaing?

It takes the element of surprise away. How many home invasions have you witnessed? How many bodies have you had to identify, notify next of kin and then explain to the home owner that its not any ones fault except the bad guys? Our lock compared to ANY others give the home owner the security and peace of mind that a criminal just can't 'kick' his way into a home. Now chainsawing and drilling and going through a window is not surprising the victim. The have enough time to arm themselves and call authorities. Compared to not having this lock, which would you prefer?

It takes 1.7 seconds to enter a home in a Kick in. The criminals that do this train for it, practice it. They know what they are doing, how to do it and get it done.


So, while you are helping your wife or watching TV or checking emails, BAM!!! someone just kicked in your door. You get up, realizing that you have intruders... they are already pointing a gun in your face. Its that fast.


Our lock prevents this: by when they kick, or use a bump it takes that element of surprise away.

I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate what I just pointed out. They see the ultimate lock, they know it can't be forced, so they find a secondary point of entry or simply knock the door. Criminals aren't THAT stupid.[/qoute]

Yes they are, other wise they wouldn't be criminals. They come at anytime, day or night. They dont want to be identified.
Criminals that use this form of entry are extremely dangerous and most likely are going to kill you after they get what they want.

Really, where is his proof? We have ours. I say ask him to put his money where his mouth is. If you are inside, he can pick ALL he wants. If you noticed the Pop A Lock Video, THEY TRIED PICKING IT FIRST...it was after this that they THEN went drill happy nuts.

His proof is in the picture he took of the cylinder in its fully picked position (now in the form of a video!). You are correct, if you're inside and have the button engaged, there is no way the lock can be picked. However, this is no different to any other lock on the market which has this deadlocking feature. If someone wants to pick/bump the lock and get in while you're away, they can do so relatively easily.

And yes, I did say BUMP. Your lock doesn't have a restricted key profile, as a matter of fact it uses an extremely common one - the SC4. Anyone can get their hands on a suitable blank or old key without having to buy one of your locks to get them. Factory made bump keys are easily available online aswell.

I don't see any anti-bump features whatsoever other than the lock being deadbolted from the inside. Again, this is not unique to your lock. The old nightlatch from my front door deadbolted when you pressed the little button, and it was at least 15 years old. Gimme a break... it's sure as hell not as strong as your lock, but it definately offered the same level of pick/bump resistance.

If you wanna make your lock REALLY "pick proof", get some serrated/spooled key pins aswell as drivers, and for the love of god put more than 3 in there. If your lock isn't deadbolted (ie. will operate from the outside with the key so the owners can get in), I guarantee it can be picked in well under 2 minutes.

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and
"pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some
other security factor? Yes, this feature has to be engaged, but using our patent six pin feature is also extra security. You might get three/four pins a lined, but all six in a timely manor....

So, if the owner isn't at home or has forgotten to deadbolt the lock, the lock still offers resistance to picking and bumping in the form of 6 pins as opposed to 5, and 3 of them are security pins. Is this correct?

That may sound good to you or someone who doesn't know jack about locks, but when you consider the security pins are simply spooled drivers (shallow ones, at that) and all normal key pins, it doesn't sound so great. I have a little saying which you might wanna read over a couple of times... if it operates with the key, it can be bypassed without that key. PERIOD.

How much do you actually know about how picking and bumping work? You can't simply say it's bump proof because it has 6 pins...

The anti bump proof was what he drilled out, the six pins make it hard to pick, again you forget you are a professional, criminals aren't. They just steal.


there are legitimate bump proof locks on the market. Your lock doesn't even contain bump dampening pins. If the owners forget to deadlock it, or they're not at home, this feature cannot be in place and the lock is therefore fully operational from the outside with the use of the correct key (and therefore also fully open to manipulation by use of bump keys or picks). Comments?

On the picking side of things, you're basically saying it can't be picked because it has 6 pins. That is no defense whatsoever. Can we see the patent? Kwikset Ultramax also has 6 pins, 3 of which are spools. exactly the same. Security pins are a patented technology, but it certainly isn't yours.[/quote]

No, I'm saying that when the feature is ENGAGED, it is resistant to being bumped keyed or pick....unless you happen to have a drill and know exactly where to drill, in which your screwed. Other wise criminals and again I point this what should be an OBVIOUS FACT. Are NOT as smart as you, talented or knowledgeable of the mechanics compared to the HOURS of training you have. And if they are...have them come over to my house...I have this HORRIBLE china they can steal...its insured.