"The Ultimate Lock"

[.45cal]

Good job and nice pics

Also Nice Mat where did you get it I want one!

[the lockpickkid]

KokomoLock! Nice fricken work, I was waiting for this! What about the button device thing that locks out the operator key?? What is the story on this part of the lock, is it true, and if you don't mind, how did you get around it?

[Foo]

Sounds similar to Master Locks NightWatch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noltrZ2k3Bw

[the lockpickkid]

As with any product, locks or otherwise, every once in a while somebody markets a "revolutionary product" something thats the best of the best, almost always turns out to be a marketing gimmick on a product that is similar to another or completely different design of something that turns out to be just another ordinary product with no real value versus a competitors version.

[KokomoLock]

Good job and nice pics

Also Nice Mat where did you get it I want one!

It is a Lab Pin Mat.

KokomoLock! Nice fricken work, I was waiting for this! What about the button device thing that locks out the operator key?? What is the story on this part of the lock, is it true, and if you don't mind, how did you get around it?

I will get some more lock porn tonight of the rest of the lock, I did not get around the dead lock button, only picked the cylinder. Like someone already stated, I think you would have to drill a hole through the door to push the button out of the bolt in order to get it open if deadlocked. I do not see much need to bypass the lock button, if I get a call to unlock the house, the customer is not in the house normally, so the deadlock can not be enabled. The only way would be if Ultimate deadlocked on front and back door and they went out garage, come home and garage door failed. I will be gettting the drill point of the deadlock button incase it does happen. Should be really easy to drill, look just like a Weiser deadbolt to me, no hardened steel, just brass. I have no Idea how Pop a lock dude broke his bit so quick, unless they paid him extra to do so ..

[the lockpickkid]

Sounds awesome, very good work! When I seen the pop-a-lock guys in the video, I figured some crazy things were going on!!

Good work. It does make sense that these guys couldn't open the lock with any of their tools, because it was deadlocked.

What I'm thinking though, is if you look at the installation video, you can clearly see the hole in the latchbolt that the deadlocking button is pushed into.
There's no rear shielding on this button, what's to stop you from putting a 1/8th drillbit through the door and pushing that button out, then picking it open?

Awesome idea putting the install video online for everyone to see, I don't even need to buy one of these to see some points to attack.

[Solomon]

Good work. It does make sense that these guys couldn't open the lock with any of their tools, because it was deadlocked.

What I'm thinking though, is if you look at the installation video, you can clearly see the hole in the latchbolt that the deadlocking button is pushed into.
There's no rear shielding on this button, what's to stop you from putting a 1/8th drillbit through the door and pushing that button out, then picking it open?

Awesome idea putting the install video online for everyone to see, I don't even need to buy one of these to see some points to attack.

Hahaha... that's just terrific. I dunno what the deadbolts are like in the US, but here in the UK all night latches - even those with a regular slippable latch - have a snib on the inside which does exactly the same thing as the magical button on the ultimate lock...

... except you can't just poke something through the keyhole to disengage them, that is. Nicely spotted! Looks like this is another losing point for the so-called ultimate lock. I wonder how they'll respond when videos of these being picked start cropping up everywhere?

Also, what happens when someone with common sense loses their keys and a proper locksmith comes out to open it for them? "They said it was pick proof! That took like 2 minutes, what's going on?" - imagine having to tell someone who paid £100 for a deadbolt that it's not actually the slightest bit pick proof unless you've activated the button from the inside!

This locks ONLY strong point is the fact that it's extremely resistant to forced entry... and we don't even know that, cos the guys in that demo drilled about as well as they picked. Personally, I'd prefer a decent cylinder which I actually knew needed a lot of skill to pick. And maybe a couple of these for good measure.

[aka.decoy]

Dude, I want the stickers! But I don't know how to get you back for the postage...

-I know they sped up a lot of the other footage, but I think it's strange how they speed up the drill breakage. He could have pried the drill to break it. I mean, I know there's different parts and the load would've been intermittent instead of constant, but still! Unless he had an expensive keyless chuck attached to his drill which tightens during drilling, which I doubt. Cordless drills don't usually come with those chucks. Besides, that looked like a 1/4" drill! I've never broken a drill bit over that size before, especially with a cordless drill. Also, most times (not with smaller drills, but usually with larger ones) a drill will grab before it breaks. When that happens, somethings gotta give. It's usually the workpiece, the drill, or your wrist. There was no twisting of his wrist either.


Sorry, who really cares about that? Pls. excuse the drunken machinist side of me.

I dunno what the deadbolts are like in the US, but here in the UK all night latches - even those with a regular slippable latch - have a snib on the inside which does exactly the same thing as the magical button on the ultimate lock...

... except you can't just poke something through the keyhole to disengage them, that is. Nicely spotted! Looks like this is another losing point for the so-called ultimate lock.

I'm from Australia, and yes we have the same snibbed nightlatches here.
But you can't poke something through the keyhole on them, or the 'Ultimate Lock' to disengage it. You'd need to drill a hole roughly inbetween the edge of the door and the hole cut for the lock cylinder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2h68QV0xfk#t=3m23s
See the hole right beside his thumb? That's where the deadlocking button is pushed in. When in the locked position, this would be positioned right between the backing plate, and the black plastic spacer ("security bar guide")
When locked, only the deadbolt housing would be protecting this. As the bolt has been thrown, there would only be the steel casing and metal plate connecting the bolt to the rotating hub that activated the bolt throw.

Assuming DE is an option, one might theoretically drill one hole through this point (or below\above the deadbolt housing, to avoid possible lockup) and deactivate the deadlock, thereby allowing perfectly normal picking.

The rear gear system and choice of plug\housing indicates a 180 degree turn in either direction to lock\unlock. Unlock would be from 12 oclock towards the door hinges.


That aside, I must point out the most obvious flaw in this marketing crap.
They say the lock can withstand a police battering ram. That's all well and good, but anyone who's worked in any repair job knows that most residential doors can't withstand that. The lock will generally outlast most doors.
If the door doesn't give way, the door frame will.

But then, if they're testing the lock on a metal-sheeted solid core door, I have no doubt that it will hold. Most locks will.
I've seen a job where a group actually cut through a sheeted strongroom door with an ax because they couldn't bust the deadlatch.
Once again, false advertising. If they're not listing what doors\frames these "8,000 pound holding force" tests are done on, it's moot point.

I know they sped up a lot of the other footage, but I think it's strange how they speed up the drill breakage. He could have pried the drill to break it. I mean, I know there's different parts and the load would've been intermittent instead of constant, but still! I've never broken a drill bit over that size before, especially with a cordless drill. Also, most times (not with smaller drills, but usually with larger ones) a drill will grab before it breaks. somethings gotta give. It's usually the workpiece, the drill, or your wrist. There was no twisting of his wrist either.

yeah it's common to break drillbits when you're trying to drill the retaining screws.
The drill will slip off, and if you're attacking a cylinder like that one with nothing on either side of the screw, the drill will walk off quicker than your hand will compensate - snap.

Also something else I've just noticed about the videos.
Every one of those guys have wedding rings, and nice watches.
Has anyone else seen a tradesman that wears his wedding ring on a job?

Hey mate, Harvey here from Australia.

I'm a practicing locksmith, and cover an area about 4,500 square km's.

Just some questions about your 3000 series Residential Ultimate Lock.

What types of doors are you using in your kick tests?
Are there any modifications you do to the door?
Do you use any above-standard materials in\on your doors or framework when doing your battering ram tests?
What functions do you use to stop the deadlocking button from being manipulated from through the door, by use of drilling attack?

A member from KeyPicking.com, "KokomoLock", has claimed to have picked your unmodified Ultimate Lock 3000 series deadbolt cylinder.
Do you have any comments on this?

Do your claims of the Ultimate Lock being "bump-resistant" and "pick-resistant" rely on the deadlocking button being used, or some other security factor?

Are you considering making a double-cylinder version, for greater usage and application?

Currently there is a discussion going on at KeyPicking about your lock, and your Pop-A-Lock demonstration video.
(here viewtopic.php?p=18429#p18429 )


Disclaimer: this email will be posted in it's entirety on http://www.keypicking.com for the public to view.


Cheers, Harvey.

[Solomon]

Nice one GC! If they had a disclaimer which detailed their test conditions I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the stuff they were saying, after all its the responsibility of the customers to read the fine print... but I don't see anything of the sort.

My bet is, if they do reply, it'll be a very vague response or a referral to some other department (who will then refer you to a different one, and so on until you get fed up). Companies absolutely HATE answering technical questions like this.

[aka.decoy]

yeah it's common to break drillbits when you're trying to drill the retaining screws.
The drill will slip off, and if you're attacking a cylinder like that one with nothing on either side of the screw, the drill will walk off quicker than your hand will compensate - snap.

my makita has that type of chuck

Also something else I've just noticed about the videos.
Every one of those guys have wedding rings, and nice watches.
Has anyone else seen a tradesman that wears his wedding ring on a job?

Wow, you must have a good one. My makita is kinda old, doesn't have one Actually it's kinda good that it doesn't. I hand tighten all my keyed chucks at the shop anyway. I'd rather have it slip during breakthrough than break off in the piece. He was using his shoulder too (which I do) but was probably putting too much pressure anyway, knowing nothing was behind it.

Lol at "compensate". Usually when your wrist twists it's not "compensating" on purpose. haha.

Good call on the man bling. I never noticed it till you mentioned it. Perhaps they knew they were being filmed and wanted to look pretty. Or maybe they wanted to show their wives that they wear their rings while making house calls to hot housewives lol. My wife once gave me a piece of crap "work ring" to wear since I'm so sexy. Hey, didn't someone mention posting greased up pics of ourselves?

[aka.decoy]

Nice one GC! If they had a disclaimer which detailed their test conditions I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the stuff they were saying, after all its the responsibility of the customers to read the fine print... but I don't see anything of the sort.

My bet is, if they do reply, it'll be a very vague response or a referral to some other department (who will then refer you to a different one, and so on until you get fed up). Companies absolutely HATE answering technical questions like this.

Yeah, they probably don't expect a SME to call them on their claims. Great email lol.

[the lockpickkid]

Great Email GC, I am curious as to what the reaction will be. I have a question though, on these Ultimate locks, what disengages the button on the inside, do you simply turn the knob and it pops out? If so couldn't you use an under the door knob tool, they have them now I have never used them, but I was thinking if you were to grab the knob with one and turn it, that should release the button and open the door, I know here in the U.S. I think they have to operate this way per fire code. Feedback???