Basic questions about key duplication machines

[overWeight]

I am relatively new to picking as a hobby (LockSport), and it looks like a key cutting/duplication machine would be interesting to have. I know next to nothing about them and what features would be desireable, and what to look for in a machine. I know some are automatic, but besides that, I would be blindly shopping based by price. So I have some basic questions about the machines in general, with relation to hobby use:

Are there machines that allow you to input key codes of major manufacturers, or do you need to do the math and cut raw heights, or both?

What are some major brands that make good machines? What should be avoided?

Are there specific features on key machines that are used every day as a smith or are indispensible?

Is it overkill to use a key machine to produce a key based on impressioning? Should I just stick with a file?

What key brands can be cut on machines? I assume that key controlled brands have their own special machines? Can house keys and auto keys be duplicated on the same machine?

Is it worth checking out laser cutters for small volume, or is that absurd?

Are machines significantly different for the US market, with respect to Europe?

Any beginner advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[jeffmoss26]

I am relatively new to picking as a hobby (LockSport), and it looks like a key cutting/duplication machine would be interesting to have. I know next to nothing about them and what features would be desireable, and what to look for in a machine. I know some are automatic, but besides that, I would be blindly shopping based by price. So I have some basic questions about the machines in general, with relation to hobby use:

Are there machines that allow you to input key codes of major manufacturers, or do you need to do the math and cut raw heights, or both?
Yes, both manual code (by card) and computer driven (software)

What are some major brands that make good machines? What should be avoided?
Ilco is the main brand of duplicators. HPC is the main brand of code machines. Jet, Rytan, Silca, Framon are some others.
Best, Medeco, etc have their own proprietary machines.

Are there specific features on key machines that are used every day as a smith or are indispensible?
I am not a locksmith, but pretty much every locksmith I visit has an HPC 1200 code machine

Is it overkill to use a key machine to produce a key based on impressioning? Should I just stick with a file?
Unless you are really good with a duplicator and depth keys, or spend the $$ for a code machine, it's not worth it.

What key brands can be cut on machines? I assume that key controlled brands have their own special machines? Can house keys and auto keys be duplicated on the same machine?
Standard cylinder keys can be duplicated on just about any machine. There are special machines for the following: warded, flat safe deposit, tubular, dimple, Medeco, SFIC, sidewinder, laser (the last two are automotive)

Is it worth checking out laser cutters for small volume, or is that absurd?
Absurd in my mind, the only laser cutters I see are for HS automotive

Are machines significantly different for the US market, with respect to Europe?
Many Euro locks I see use the common Y1 keyway, but they also have high security stuff.
Any beginner advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[overWeight]

Thanks, that wes quite helpfull. One follow up question: what is a code machine?

[rzr800]

Any duplicator with a 4-way copy dog style can cut cylinder/automotive standard keys. It'll cut commercial and residential and any automotive key that's not laser cut. It is the first machine you need to get to start locksmithing. If you go to a hardware store and look at all the selection of keys available for copying, that is what any dup can cut as far as what keys can it copy. You can do a lot with a dup. You can clamp broken keys back together and copy it, and you can copy do not duplicate keys for all your buddies. Code machines cost a lot more, and they are what you use for making keys that are not available to copy, but I wouldn't worry about a code machine until you become familiar with a dup first.

[mastersmith]

I am going to disagree with you on this one Rzr. A code machine is a machine that will create original keys, not duplicates. Imputting depth and space information to generate an original combination without a key copy to start with. There are computerized machines, card machines, dial machines and my favorite the Framon #2 which is a micrometer like arrangement.

[jeffmoss26]

A code machine does exactly what you asked: "Are there machines that allow you to input key codes of major manufacturers, or do you need to do the math and cut raw heights, or both?"

Using either computer software on the higher end machines, code cards on the most common machines, or a micrometer on the most basic, you either enter the direct code of the key to be cut, or the actual depths and spaces.

[rzr800]

Card cutters would be your basic 1200 and then you can step up to automatic ones that are either controlled by self-contained computer interface or a external laptop controlled. I personally started with a hpc mini speedex for a few years and then bought a ilco ezcode, which is a automatic self contained machine. it will cut auto-indirect code or it will cut by card. The card feature is all built into the machine. It will cut all standard automotive keys either by direct or indirect code(code series). After this machine I bought a 3d pro xtreme which completely blew the ezcode off the bench. Its twice as fast and the 3d pro x is not accurate ITS DEAD ON. My ezcode is boxed up in my basement on stand by if my 3d breaks and has to get shipped off, but I don't think it will break anytime soon.

[macgng]

a very good machine to start with is the Foley Belsaw model 200 or something like an Ilco Mini Mite.

[overWeight]

Thank you all for the information. This helped a lot.

[mechanical_nightmare]

How reliable would it be to use a proxxon/dremel, a hand file and a micrometer for key duplication? I've debated buying an Ilco mini-mite before, but it seems way excessive.

[GWiens2001]

It can work. Have used just had files and dial calipers before. If you have known cuts, then the dremel can speed things up. Just be aware that the better made the lock, the more picky it will be about depth and spacing.

Gordon

[macgng]

here just make one of these: http://www.rotosmithtools.com

[mechanical_nightmare]

macgng wrote: here just make one of these: http://www.rotosmithtools.com

That's really cool, so practical! I'm not sure how I would make one without a lathe, but I can probably get someone to do it here. Until then, I will file and dremel away. Thanks for the replies!