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INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:03 pm

INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

After reading a topic on another forum regarding the keys there codes and the fact no one seems to have the code series even on there key code software ! for what is a 30 year old key and patent well expired I thought id start this topic to see what if anything can be done regarding the code series used !
or at least document some of the keys depths and spacings .

lp101 topic failed really to go anywhere with this...lets do better :D but of course if some lucky sole out there as the little code book marked

INGERSOLL TOP SECRET WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU !!

id like this topic to be a work in progress to see if we can make some sense out of it and does require lots of your photos ... this will help the cause greatly !

The goal ... to understand & produce a working cutting card with space and depths such as the cards used on the hpc cutting machines

more to follow .
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:32 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

The following photos are Ingersoll original keys stamped with there codes and the modern day blanks that can be bought as there not protected , id like your thoughts !

there is no pattern I can see...this points to a series used not a direct cut code also I think the letters are for the blank used !



pics to follow
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

key blanks used not protected to copy original keys...patent protected expired !!

that's all for now folks...thoughts so far !!
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MBI

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:33 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Well, even if we cant find a book to decode blind codes, hopefully if there are enough keys to analyze you can reverse engineer a depth and space chart and from that info we can make a code cutting card.
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rzr800

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

What is that a shoulder or tip stop you think???
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:34 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

No one really knows as the codes are secret or should I say only known by a few !! so where the true code runs from tip or shoulder is also a good point !
too little is known about code cutting these keys.
mbi is correct we can make a cutting card from the known depths and spaces so we can visually decode the key as and when they become available to us.
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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Here is a picture of my key on Photobucket. Tomorrow I'll dig the actual key out and take a better picture, as well as measurements. If I remember correctly, there are three or 5 depths, I think five. Will check my info when I get home.

Have disassembly pictures on my phone, never got back around to making a write-up.

Image

Let's make this happen!

Gordon
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:53 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Thank you Gordon the more keys and codes the better then we can really start to make some head way !!

KEY CODES SO FAR !
split into 3 digit makes sense at this point 2 sides of the key

004 - 108 - 112 - 2M8 - 131 - 143 - 153 - 174 - 179 - 303 - 316 - 359 - 517 - 521 - 555 - 619 - 658 - 758 - 819 - 830 - 833 - 920 - 946 - 956 -
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:31 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Keep in mind that the locks used by the military have had three numbers from the code removed by drilling a hole through the code stamped on the key. At least one of those three numbers are part of the code that tells which key blank is used. Clearly, the catalog page you showed will clarify the blank.

Gordon
Last edited by GWiens2001 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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huxleypig

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:33 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

I'll post mine up soon. I want to know who the hell keeps drilling holes right through the codes on the bow??! Mine are like that too. **EDIT** Just seen why this is done, cheers Gordon**EDIT**

But more pertinently (possibly) I was talking to someone at a funeral the other day who just so happens to work for Ingersoll. Well, Ingersoll Rand to be precise. But they might be good to ask about it, I'm sure there are people there who know.

Wait, I know I've mentioned several times before that this is the lock I use on my front door so maybe I won't post a pic after all!

The code is 7 7*?? A 303

* maybe, very obscured by the beginning of the drill hole
Last edited by huxleypig on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Yes ! Gordon I have taken this into account I have split the code into 3 digit numbers as it makes sense at this point ! codes above it will get interesting if and when the same code key is sort and they match or not

Thank you hp any help would be great ! 303 confirmed I will had this to the codes
Last edited by 10ringo10 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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huxleypig

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Ringo, there are 3 keys you picture that have the same bitting and all are 316. One is an A keyway, one S and the last N.
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10ringo10

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Post Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

I did notice makes you wonder if they changed the keyways and keys... but not the codes , this is very common makes the job a bit easier as the workings don't change

or levers to be correct !
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GWiens2001

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Post Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:02 am

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Ok, folks! Here is what I have so far...

Image

Image

British lock, so all measurements are in metric.

There are four bitting depths according to Graham Pullford's book. The actual measurement will depend on what side you are measuring.

Shoulder to first cut: 6.50mm
Distance between cuts: 2.25mm (4.50mm between cuts on same side of the key)
Depth of cut increment: .50mm

Cuts are on opposite sides, so cuts 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9 are on one side, 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 are on the other side.

Cut number Distance from Shoulder to center of cut
1 6.50mm
2 8.75mm
3 11.00mm
4 13.25mm
5 15.50mm
6 17.75mm
7 20.00mm
8 22.25mm
9 24.50mm
10 26.75mm

Gordon
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10ringo10

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Post Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:14 am

Re: INGERSOLL KEY CODES ??

Absolutely brilliant the first Ingersoll depths and spaces !! in 3 decades to be documented ... great job

It is amazing to think that Ingersoll rand as had no control over the keys for so long ..yet managed to keep the codes and depths & spaces from us or a secret for so long !
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