Depth Keys

[Lockman4783]

Hey all.. I am a die hard collector but have only ventured into the locksmithing part a few times. This may be a stupid question, But if a lock has pin numbers on it indicating which key is used, In theory if i had a set of space/depth keys, I could use those keys on my key machine to correctly cut a key for a lock right? this goes back to my vintage sinclair oil padlock I found. I am in the pursuit for some corbin 5 pin space keys to try and make a key for this lock. Any suggestions to the use of these keys? How is the best way to use them? Or if this can actually be done? Thanks in advance!!

[jeffmoss26]

I am curious about this as well. Hopefully one of our locksmiths can answer. Say the key was 51236, I would have to switch keys 5 times, and be SUPER careful to only cut that one depth.

Jeff

[Lockman4783]

I am in the process of doing some research on this as well, Because if that's the case then I should be able to get a corbin set of these keys and just cut what I need. Though I know sometimes i have seen keys with a letter mixed in on the cut number, Not too sure about that one. Even for a master lock I have it says on the lock... A546 or whatever the numbers are, don't know right now without looking at it, But never the less, If this concept works I am curious to see if I can find a match to this lock.

[mdc5150]

I am in the process of doing some research on this as well, Because if that's the case then I should be able to get a corbin set of these keys and just cut what I need. Though I know sometimes i have seen keys with a letter mixed in on the cut number, Not too sure about that one. Even for a master lock I have it says on the lock... A546 or whatever the numbers are, don't know right now without looking at it, But never the less, If this concept works I am curious to see if I can find a match to this lock.

A546 is not the cuts to the key it is the key code.

With a set of depth keys you can cut keys to code. It's a slow old way of doing it but it is still very reliable as long as your cutter is accurate and your depth keys are accurately cut. You would not be able to do this with an automatic duplicator either.

I've found I get the best results by making my deepest cuts first and work my way to the shallowest cut.

Here is how it works in a nutshell. If the cuts on your key are 52345 then you put your #5 cut depth key on the position to duplicate from and a blank in the position to cut to in your duplicator and you cut the first and last cuts on the key. Then for the next one, your #4 depth key and only cut it in the fourth position. Number 3 depth key for position number 3, and number two depth key to make your cut in the second space. Now your blank would be a code cut key to 52345.

[mdc5150]

I am curious about this as well. Hopefully one of our locksmiths can answer. Say the key was 51236, I would have to switch keys 5 times, and be SUPER careful to only cut that one depth.

Jeff

Yes. I didn't read your post carefully enough before I responded the first time. No sleep at all.

[LocksmithArmy]

I am curious about this as well. Hopefully one of our locksmiths can answer. Say the key was 51236, I would have to switch keys 5 times, and be SUPER careful to only cut that one depth.

Jeff

only cutting one depth at a time is harder on your cutting wheel... it really grinds up on the blank that way

you cut ALL the depths to the highest depth on that key

so if ur key is 43112 youd cut the key to 11111

then switch depth keys to the 2... and cut 22112

then on to the 3 with 33112

and finally the 4 to get your bitting of 43112

this IS a manual way to code cut keys... you do of course need the REAL code not a hidden code or encripted code. there is software on the market that will give you the REAL code instead of the A123 bla bla codes... itll take that code and give yo ua bitting...

what else did you think space and depth keys were for?

[mastersmith]

Remember also that the cutter on your duplicate was not designed for originating keys. Normally the angle will be steeper. This only means you need to "dress" the key afterward to make it work smoothly. Hand filing the ramps between cuts and cleaning up any rough spots. Many cutters are only beveled on one side, which can leave a flat on one side of each cut. Again, a file can fix this. Just take your time so you aren't burning through blanks.

[10ringo10]

master bittings to code 001.JPG

Master bitting. 8 depths + 8 depth keys for example A 546

[jeffmoss26]

THANK YOU LSA! That makes a lot more sense now!!

[abroxis]

So I have my blanks, depth keys ,good digital calipers and the cut information from instacode. Ccould someone please discuss what kind of file most locksmiths would use.

Round, square, pipin, and how course or fine a cut. Would Sears carry such a file or are they only carried by trade suppliers?

BTW one file i saw mentioned was called a "fat bastard" ....If i ask for a fat bastard at most hardware stores I might get a punch in the nose.

Is it practical to just use calipers without depthkeys to cut keys ?

[LocksmithArmy]

using calipers alone would be practical if you are not using a key machine... spacing is a lil harder with just calipers tho so its good your using the depth/space keys too. just mark all your spacing beforehand with a little tick with the file...

I personally prefer a swiss cut pipin file... but a nice rattail/round file works just as nice...

If your REALLY wanting the key to LOOK like it was made on a machind id keep a square and triangle file handy to finish up the cuts... but thats only for asthetics...

idk what a fat bastard is... so i wouldnt ask at a hardware store... lol but for all i know it is a common tool..

[magician59]

A Bastard is a single-cut, very coarse metal file (think of a rasp, for metal cutting.). It is used for making very quick rough cuts. "Fat" may be one manufacturer's trade name for the size (like Stanley's "Fat Max").

It's really hard to explain this remotely; but I have a triangular file, with one corner ground smooth. It's made so that I can widen key cuts, without the danger of deepening them. I just make sure the smooth edge is facing the root of the cut (Where the pin sits in the cut), and adjust the angle, and widen the cut if necessary.

To get a consistent angle on my slopes, I clamp the key in a vise. When adjusting the angle of the slopes, I work on the same slope on all the cuts; then the other slope. For the slope nearest the bow, I just clamp the key in the vise with the tip slope parallel with the jaws of the vise (meaning horizontal). This ensures all my slopes duplicte that leading tip of the key.

For the slopes nearest the tip lof the key, orient the key so that the leading slope is just a hair beyond vertical (making the included angle of the cut about 100*).

With a few years of practice, you'll be hand filing keys that look factory-made.

[jeffmoss26]

I wish I could find the Hank Spicer 'filing for dollars' video that I used to have on my computer. It had some great info!

[LocksmithArmy]

buy one of my hdds jeff

[mastersmith]

Jeff, I use a pippin file. If you learn to control one of these, it's all you will use for this. Locksmith and machinists are the only ones I've ever seen use them. A friend of mine grabbed a bunch of them cheap at a flea market. He says they work great for him. Probably from a machine shop.[metacafe][/metacafe]