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The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:29 am
by Riyame
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/11/amanda-todd-teen-bullying-suicide-youtube_n_1959668.html

I am speechless.... The cruelty of people never ceases to amaze me.

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:09 am
by keymaster1053
:agree: :akimbo:

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:23 am
by piotr
I think it is a mistake to see this tragedy solely in terms of bullying. No doubt Amanda was subjected to unrelentless bullying and marginalisation but there appear to me pre-existing and concurrent problems that are quite independent of the bullying. It appears to me that she was pre-disposed to depressive illness and it is likely that she also had borderline personality disorder. The general public still appears unable to conceptualise mental illness as genuine illness with a biological basis to which some people are pre-disposed, as per physical illness. The sad story of Amanda Todd is one of the effects of bullying and untreated and/or improperly treated mental illness.

Further, there are signs that Amanda's homelife was difficult. It appears that her parents were separated and that she had no sanctuary at home. This is evinced by her description of herself as "having no one and needing someone". There are other indicators of problems beyond her victimisation. These include her inability to form supportive relationships with both members of the same and the opposite sex. That Amanda was unable to develop a healthy relationship with a boy at school -- which would have buffered her from some of the victimisation -- is unusual. There were clearly aspects of Amanda's personality that impeded her social success. This, her apparent impulsivity and her self-harm are consistent with borderline personality disorder.

This of course does not exonerate nor justify her victimisers. Amanda was treated cruelly and that cruelty did contribute to her deteriorating mental health and eventual suicide. That notwithstanding, it is important -- for the sake of preventing teenage suicide -- that mental illness is understood as real illness and it is understood that a portion of the population is "at risk". It is when an at risk individual encounters an adverse environment that the risk of mental illness is realised and tragedy often ensues. In Amanda's case I think it was a case of genetics loading the metaphorical gun and the environment (unsupportive home-life, untreated mental illness, bullying, social isolation) pulling the trigger.

Teenage suicide is a major problem in the Anglo-sphere, it has been described as an "epidemic" in at least one documentary on the topic. The media -- at the urging of mental health professionals so as to prevent a contagion effect -- under-reports it. The sad reality is that there are many Amandas that we never hear about. My teenage nephew told me that six teenagers in his social circle have committed suicide. Many years ago on the way home from work I witnessed a very brutal teenage suicide. The federal government in Australia is funding a series of advertising campaigns urging troubled teenagers to seek help; it has also funded various initiatives to make mental health services more accessible to teenagers. I believe there are similar governmental efforts in North America and the UK. Saddening stuff. We also shouldn't forget that there is a parallel "epidemic" of suicide amongst our war veterans. There is something profoundly wrong with our societies.

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:59 am
by mdc5150
piotr wrote:I think it is a mistake to see this tragedy solely in terms of bullying. No doubt Amanda was subjected to unrelentless bullying and marginalisation but there appear to me pre-existing and concurrent problems that are quite independent of the bullying. It appears to me that she was pre-disposed to depressive illness and it is likely that she also had borderline personality disorder. The general public still appears unable to conceptualise mental illness as genuine illness with a biological basis to which some people are pre-disposed, as per physical illness. The sad story of Amanda Todd is one of the effects of bullying and untreated and/or improperly treated mental illness.

Further, there are signs that Amanda's homelife was difficult. It appears that her parents were separated and that she had no sanctuary at home. This is evinced by her description of herself as "having no one and needing someone". There are other indicators of problems beyond her victimisation. These include her inability to form supportive relationships with both members of the same and the opposite sex. That Amanda was unable to develop a healthy relationship with a boy at school -- which would have buffered her from some of the victimisation -- is unusual. There were clearly aspects of Amanda's personality that impeded her social success. This, her apparent impulsivity and her self-harm are consistent with borderline personality disorder.

This of course does not exonerate nor justify her victimisers. Amanda was treated cruelly and that cruelty did contribute to her deteriorating mental health and eventual suicide. That notwithstanding, it is important -- for the sake of preventing teenage suicide -- that mental illness is understood as real illness and it is understood that a portion of the population is "at risk". It is when an at risk individual encounters an adverse environment that the risk of mental illness is realised and tragedy often ensues. In Amanda's case I think it was a case of genetics loading the metaphorical gun and the environment (unsupportive home-life, untreated mental illness, bullying, social isolation) pulling the trigger.

Teenage suicide is a major problem in the Anglo-sphere, it has been described as an "epidemic" in at least one documentary on the topic. The media -- at the urging of mental health professionals so as to prevent a contagion effect -- under-reports it. The sad reality is that there are many Amandas that we never hear about. My teenage nephew told me that six teenagers in his social circle have committed suicide. Many years ago on the way home from work I witnessed a very brutal teenage suicide. The federal government in Australia is funding a series of advertising campaigns urging troubled teenagers to seek help; it has also funded various initiatives to make mental health services more accessible to teenagers. I believe there are similar governmental efforts in North America and the UK. Saddening stuff. We also shouldn't forget that there is a parallel "epidemic" of suicide amongst our war veterans. There is something profoundly wrong with our societies.


Piotr are you a doctor? I ask because you always have a detailed well written and comprehensive response to just about anything.

As for this being a case of bullying I would have to disagree. Although he used her weakness against her both by getting her to flash, and by blackmailing her this is much worse than bullying. Bullying does not need to be redefined into something it is not. Bullying is solved very easily by the victim standing up for themselves and not taking the abuse. There was nothing this girl could have done to keep the sick bastard from doing what he did to her. What he did was, if the laws are even similar in Canada as they are here, child porn.

As for most of what else you've said Piotr, mental ilness is still viewed as a weakness in the U.S. and people who are mentally ill are for the most part avoided because of fear of the unknown. Before I got to the last part of your post I was thinking about the soldiers that are killing themselves. Before I left Iraq for good in 2006 the Army had started running commercials on AFN (Armed Forces Network) about mental illness and encouraging soldiers who felt isolated to seek help. Having never been in the military myself I don't know how it was actually being treated in the individual units. I know my brother had a hell of a time when he came home. He's better now but it was a really rough homecoming. Even though I'd spent more time there than him he wouldn't open up to me about it because I'm his little brother. He briefed me before I went and I had to lean on him in some bad times when I was there. I know enough about military culture that he wouldn't open up to me because for lack of a better term he out ranked me. And you don't complain down you complain up.

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:03 am
by Alaphablue
Were is the father and why is he not in jail for putting this little prick in intensive care .

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:10 am
by rai
Not quite a thread hijack this brings in a different subject and situation www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/ ... l#comments
and the comments are very interesting especially when you read the posts of clive robinson, who has three of his posts in this one comments section
Clive is a frequent poster on this thread and a very intelligent one.

after reading the whole thing and perhaps an aside to wikipedia for the dunning krueger effect
some of you will see a bit of a parallel to amanda and this thread where some posters postulate that the actual problem is exacerbated by other conditions in her life.

Enjoy

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:56 am
by mech
another lost soul, makes you want to grab em by the sholders and shake em out of it and let them know their are good people in this world that can help. i guess they cant see beyond the pain... how can fuckers do this to another human being.. hope they are happy they have blood on their hands.. this really pissed me off.

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:18 pm
by piotr
mdchurchill wrote:Piotr are you a doctor? I ask because you always have a detailed well written and comprehensive response to just about anything.


No, thanks for the compliment, I am just a lowly computer programmer :smile:

Re: The sad effects of bullying

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:31 am
by piotr