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Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:20 pm
by least
Overlifting maybe?

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:23 pm
by femurat
I'm not sure if the longest pins at rest are at the correct depth. This flat strip allows me to lift all the pins of one side at the deepest key cut level.
I insert it on both sides before starting to pick. I think it helps.
Is not overlifting but lifting at zero, so I'd call it underlifting!

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:54 pm
by least
I think that with lever locks it is called pre-lifting... But having a background in electrotechnics, I'd call it "grounding" :twisted:
since you are lifting them to a zero cut height...

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:15 pm
by femurat
Grounding is very funny. But yes, prelifting is the correct term, thank you!

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:54 pm
by femurat
Image

Day 290 of 366. It's the first time I open this MTL. I was expecting the outer pins to bind first. They didn't. And the small offset sixth pin distracted me a lot.
I decided to disassemble the lock and learn to pick it one pin at a time, starting from the back. The key should have an interactive element, but the tip of the pick is enough to set its pin, especially if it's the only pin in the lock :lol:
I added a standard pin, and it was still easy. Then another one and I was starting to get a feel for this lock. At this point I was confident enough to add all the remaining pins.

What I find strange is that the inner pins are set first, and then after setting the interactive element pin and getting a false set, there are still a few external pins to set. It never happened to me with a MTL. Usually the last ones to set are the small internal pins. Nevertheless, I got it open and had a lot of fun in the process.

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:26 pm
by edocdab
Pre lifting, ahh I see :)
I haven't picked a MTL, but all the ones I have seen picked bind first on the outer pins indeed. Nice how this odd lock takes you off the beaten path!

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:01 pm
by MHM
The MT5 is one of MTL's dirty little secrets...it's a truly terrible lock. It's a very well made, very close tolerance lock which explains the weird behaviour when you're picking it...things bind on other things in seemingly random fashion and in fact the binding order will be completely different if you pick the lock twice with even a small alteration in how you're applying tension.

It's easier to pick than even the MTL Classic because it never has any security pins. And it only really gets a bit challenging if you happen to get one where one or more chambers has the combination of longest outer and shortest allowable inner (there is no inTER-pin MACS in the conventional sense but there is an inTRA-pin MACS whereby a very short inner can't be used with a very long outer, so there are three or four unavailable bitting combos. For this you'll sometimes need to resort to a slightly different pick.

Oh, and did I mention that it has no bypass protection whatsoever so if you are unlucky enough to have a Europrofile MT5 with a thumbturn on your front door, you can open it with a bent piece of wire?

All in all it's a truly dire lock and MTL cynically sell it to folks either too cheap or too dumb to buy its older and far more secure brother, the MT5+.* Assa Abloy should hang their heads in shame over this one.


*And even the MT5+ is not without its failings.

Edited to add: That term "grounding" for getting the pins into their lowest possible state is genius, thank you.

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:31 pm
by femurat
Michael, you make me feel proud! That little MTL did fight to stay closed.

Image

Day 291 of 366.

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:42 pm
by femurat
Image

Day 292 of 366. One of the first training padlocks I bought at a hardware store. It was before I discovered flea markets and ebay.

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:12 pm
by femurat
Image

Day 293 of 366. I've had this PRIMUS for a long time, but never took the time to pick it. I made a rake for the sidebar finger pins inspired by one invented by raimundo. Picked the sidebar without the regular pins, just to prove the tool worked, then left it in a drawer.

Today I removed the sidebar pins and picked it a couple times without the sidebar. I smoothed a little the tip of my latest half diamond, that was too pointy and catch the pins and got stuck. It worked.

Then I removed the regular pins and installed only the sidebar pins. Picked it a few times with different tools: a very thin and small half diamond, a specific tool (like its rake but with only one groove), and its rake. I decided the most quick and effective method was its rake.

Put all the pins in the lock so it was complete again, and finally picked everything. First the standard pins, then got a small rotation, less than a false set but still noticeable. At this point the sidebar started binding, so I gently raked the finger pins with the tool that was in position since the beginning, and got the lock open.

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:47 pm
by femurat
Image

Day 294 of 366. Wanna impress someone? Pick this big and strong padlock!

Cheers :)

PS Google chrome will stop showing http pictures in https sites. I just got a certificate in my hosting to fix this problem. From now on I can post https links.
If the old posts stop showing pictures, I need an amin to edit them and add an s in the image url. Thanks

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:28 pm
by edocdab
I think it depends on who you want to impress. The innocent looking primus might win from the more beefy padlock :) Nice story on how you experimented with it!

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 pm
by MHM
femurat wrote:
PS Google chrome will stop showing http pictures in https sites. I just got a certificate in my hosting to fix this problem. From now on I can post https links.
If the old posts stop showing pictures, I need an amin to edit them and add an s in the image url. Thanks


Related: Mods - why is it that pics in some threads - this one for example - display when you're not logged in, while others - like the guy currently trying to sell some padlocks - you need to be logged on to see? Not complaining, just curious.

Michael.

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:13 am
by femurat
MHM wrote:
femurat wrote:
PS Google chrome will stop showing http pictures in https sites. I just got a certificate in my hosting to fix this problem. From now on I can post https links.
If the old posts stop showing pictures, I need an amin to edit them and add an s in the image url. Thanks


Related: Mods - why is it that pics in some threads - this one for example - display when you're not logged in, while others - like the guy currently trying to sell some padlocks - you need to be logged on to see? Not complaining, just curious.

Michael.


This is easy: if you upload pictures in the forum hosting, you need to log in to see them.
I usually upload pictures somewhere else, and only embed them here, so you can see them even if you're not logged in.

Cheers :)

Re: Happy 2020!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:52 pm
by femurat
Image

Day 295 of 366. I got this LIPS 5 levers padlock without a key, but I was lucky, the shackle was open. I got a fitting blank and modified it to make a pick. Then used a steel bar as a tensioner, I gently pushed the shackle retainer. And by gently, I really mean gently.
It was not easy to set the levers because the deep ones kept trapping my pick. If I wanted to move it to another lever I had to release tension and the lever that I just set fall back. Eventually I figured out the correct binding order so I could set the levers a little at a time. This way the pick didn't get trapped.
Once open I used a bicycle spoke, taped to the key bow, as an indicator to trace the levers relative position. I think it will help me make a key.

Cheers :)