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Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 am
by pickmonger2
An article about Marc Tobias the author of Locks Safes and Security

https://www.wired.com/2009/05/ff-keymaster/?currentPage=all

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
Why this shit gets posted every now and then? The guy is an ass, tells you much about the behaviour when he got banned from LockCon.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:12 pm
by pickmonger2
Many people like Marc Tobias for what they can learn from him and choose to ignore how he can be very difficult to deal with.

Of course he loves to stir the shit but that, and his knowledge, is what makes him such a legend. I have seen all his videos for LSS and read his books
and learned a great deal.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:26 am
by Jaakko Fagerlund
Sure he knows much and the LSS is great read, but the problem is more how he got the information and how he presents it. From others and usually without much credit.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:02 am
by TylerJThomas
Jaakko Fagerlund wrote:Sure he knows much and the LSS is great read, but the problem is more how he got the information and how he presents it. From others and usually without much credit.


He sure did appear out of nowhere after the Kaba class action lawsuit. Articles on Forbes and his website and even a full length video made to demonstrate it and provide commentary. I got to exchange correspondence with a lead plaintiff on that case (he reached out to me via LP101 no less); his group had no idea who MWT was at the time, maybe still don't, so I found the "personal" touch of the Forbes article a bit bizarre.

I also remember Chris Brennan's article regarding the Kryptonite lock bypass in 2004. Who published an article about it three days later? MWT. (I should note that neither discovered the bypass - the PSRE in the UK did over a decade before, they just didn't make it public for obvious reasons).

He was nice enough to autograph a copy of "Opened in 30 Seconds" for me though, so, I guess he's been pleasant in the one interaction I had with him.

But....point taken Jaako :agree:

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:26 am
by Josephus
Jaakko Fagerlund wrote:Sure he knows much and the LSS is great read, but the problem is more how he got the information and how he presents it. From others and usually without much credit.


The really good parts of Practical Lock Picking appear no different than rewritten passages of LSS and nobody gives Ollam crap for that.

Hell, the idea behind two of three Newton's laws were widely known and accepted as true by ancient Ionians and Atomists yet the laws are still called Newton's. Nobody cares about that.

There's no real way to tell if something is original, naturally derived, created in parallel or whatever. Enjoy what knowledge we can get when we can get it. That's rare enough.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:04 pm
by TylerJThomas
Josephus wrote:The really good parts of Practical Lock Picking appear no different than rewritten passages of LSS and nobody gives Ollam crap for that.


Yeah, Gerry Finch has some good stuff.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:22 pm
by MrWizard
TylerJThomas wrote:
Josephus wrote:The really good parts of Practical Lock Picking appear no different than rewritten passages of LSS and nobody gives Ollam crap for that.


Yeah, Gerry Finch has some good stuff.


Gerry Finch was my teacher for a year long class for 5 days a week when I started training to become a locksmith back in 1978. I was very lucky to be there and it was tough you did it his way or you are gone. Started out with 37 in the class after a couple of months it was down to 16 that made it all the way to the end. He was really an amazing man. I owe it all to him, with his approval it was easy to get employed anywhere I wanted to work.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:49 am
by Jaakko Fagerlund
Josephus wrote:
Jaakko Fagerlund wrote:There's no real way to tell if something is original, naturally derived, created in parallel or whatever. Enjoy what knowledge we can get when we can get it. That's rare enough.

Sure there is, when you personally know the people who invented certain opening methods and then you see no mentioning of credits in LSS or in any article of Tobias after he has been told/shown or he has heard about it.

Haven't seen Ollams writings so can't comment on that.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:23 pm
by plugspin
There's no harm in folks sharing info, that's good. However, it's a sad reality that some of our "heros" in life are huge let-downs when you get to meet them. And I'm not defending everything about Dev, but FWIW, he does at least thank people in the forewords of his books. We all stand on the shoulders of giants, at least some people acknowledge that.

I remember overhearing some of the shit that came out of MWT's mouth at a Lockcon ages ago while he was talking to a reporter (this was in a crowded room just before the main picking competition). She asked why he wasn't competing, he responded with something like it wouldn't be fair for him to compete because he's so good. There he is surrounded by some of the best pickers in the world and he has the gull to say something like that openly. He has no humility. Then he goes around trying to get video of every new lock exploit from the young guys so it can get rolled right into LSS. He also is the type of person who if he sees you hanging out with someone "note-worthy" he'll feign like he knows you because you must be important too. I only feel bad for the people doing his R&D work. Some of them are great people and I'm sure they get interesting access because of MWT, but at what cost.

Lastly, folks do know that the unlock codes for LSS expire after a couple years right? I don't endorse theft, but this is why people hate DRM. When MWT takes the long dirt nap everyone eventually looses their copy of LSS+ as there won't be anyone left to re-validate their license key.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:04 am
by huxleypig
I have to concur with the sentiment towards MWT. I know a few guys who have all told me a very similar story; that they contributed chunks to LSS without any credit or reward. That story about Lockcon is hilarious, seems to sum him up. The real reason he didn't take part is because he would've gone shown up for not being the God of Locks.

I tell you what I see in most of his literature (and backed up by people's stories), and that is that nearly everything that he has written is (at the very least) from hanging off the coattails of others. LSS is a collection of (seemingly) other people's work, The Medeco "Gone in 30 Seconds" involved Tobias Bluzmanis to (IMO) a large degree. I have also heard stories of him schmoozing around at Lockcon, hoarding as many tools and techniques as he can.

I think what rubs me up most is when someone takes credit for other's work. And he is not alone in this respect, there are a lot of guys in the Locksmithing world who get credit for being brilliant when in reality they are mediocre at best and just shout the loudest.

But having said all of that, I do not know the guy, I emailed him a very long time ago asking for some very general advice when Camlock Systems were trying to sue me (being a lawyer and all with experience dealing with lock makers). But he never replied, not even to tell me to go away.

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:00 am
by TylerJThomas
plugspin wrote:She asked why he wasn't competing, he responded with something like it wouldn't be fair for him to compete because he's so good.


Then why didn't he get into the fun with Tobias Bluzmanis for the Wired demonstration?!?

Re: Link to Marc Tobias article

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:15 pm
by tumbl3r
Just to echo what a few have written: There is nothing worse than when mediocrity is mistaken for excellence. And there is a special place in hell for people who take credit for the work of others.