I've wondered for a while....

[Jinglesanator]

I've wondered, can there be the same biting on a key to another lock? I mean, they make thousands, maybe millions of locks, they have to run out of different keys sometime. Maybe a brinks with an m1 blank made the same key as a master with an m1 blank. My master #5 is reeeeally close to the biting to my master #3.

On a random side note, what is the key to picking serrated pins?!?!?!?!? Lubrication, Persistence??? My brinks shrouded is making me lose my sanity!!!

[awol70]

I've wondered, can there be the same biting on a key to another lock? I mean, they make thousands, maybe millions of locks, they have to run out of different keys sometime. Maybe a brinks with an m1 blank made the same key as a master with an m1 blank. My master #5 is reeeeally close to the biting to my master #3.

On a random side note, what is the key to picking serrated pins?!?!?!?!? Lubrication, Persistence??? My brinks shrouded is making me lose my sanity!!!

yes this does happen, with almost all pin tumbler locks ,(there are only a finite amount of combinations) especially when keying large systems,ie: universities, office buildings,
factories ect....in some cases this problem is inevitable ...and from what i understand it is common to have several of these "ghost keys" floating about in a system,but usually go undetected by the end user.
and yes.. for your brinks, a shot of lube, top of the KW tension,(usually)
go SUPER light on the tension,and feel each serration "click" by...soon you will be able to differentiate serrations from the actual shearline. the plug will turn a hair ,when you hit a serration,(in effect,creating a tiny false set..)when you hit the shearline ,the plug rotates just slightly more...and yes ,a LOT of persistence..
here is an instructional vid i did a while back on spp'ing the brinks maximum security shrouded padlock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaMDszYVMrs

and a couple more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUcmLobw-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmeEFDBm2Hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRPbQc6yqz4

[johnopsec]

I have opened the door and started the ignition of another Tahoe using MY keys. It was sitting about 3 spaces from where my Tahoe was parked, was the same color, etc. I used my keyless entry button and the door (of the wrong truck) didn't unlock. So, I stuck my key in the door, unlocked it, climbed in and started the vehicle. Once I realized I was in the wrong vehicle, I promptly got out and re-locked it but, it was a bit freaky.

So, to answer your question: Yes. If it happens with cars, it happens with padlocks, etc.

[ToolyMcgee]

I have opened the door and started the ignition of another Tahoe using MY keys. It was sitting about 3 spaces from where my Tahoe was parked, was the same color, etc. I used my keyless entry button and the door (of the wrong truck) didn't unlock. So, I stuck my key in the door, unlocked it, climbed in and started the vehicle. Once I realized I was in the wrong vehicle, I promptly got out and re-locked it but, it was a bit freaky.

So, to answer your question: Yes. If it happens with cars, it happens with padlocks, etc.

I woulda loved to be there watchin your face when you realized it. At least you didn't drive anywhere.

As for the keys, next time you go to Lowes or Home Depot, look at the number on the package on KW knobs. I usually find at least one that has the same number as another.

I have also seen these packages in trash cans, with the numbers still on. People just don't understand.

This same thing happened to me with a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Seems like everyone in the area at the time had the same Forest Green Jeep. Although I didn't start the car because I reached for my sunglasses and found there was no overhead compartment and I was in the wrong vehicle. Exit the car, lock the door, and back away slowly. That was years before I picked a lock. I figured it was one in a million.

I also had my new neighbor sell me his old door locks at a garage sale, in the box that his new door locks came in... Stickers on the box that say Match this code: Keyed Alike: *****. Later the same day I told him it was the key for his front door the same way it would be the combo to a dial lock if cut to code. His jaw dropped like it was a suprise. I'm just curious what he thought the words meant, but to polite to ask.

Yes, Phantom keys are the bane of all masterkeying systems. Alot of times these can be due to over-extention of an existing masterkey system. Systems are designed with the required number of keys (say, 100) and given room for expansion\rekeying\lost keys (say, 250 codes).

But in most cases, without a very close eye on the pinning and proximity of locks, phantom keys can be a big issue. I was just at a school today that has a 9 year old masterkey system that's stretched to it's limits, it was set up by an unqualified locksmith who didn't allow for the unique requirements of a school system, and now they've got library keys opening gyms and all sorts of things.


As for residential houses, sure the same pinning can be used alot of times.
I've known fly-by locksmiths that keep a ring of keys that they use to rekey houses. They just duplicate off the ring and put it back in the van, so your freshly rekeyed house might have one of 10 key combinations.


But in reality, in a school of 100+ doors, would you try your key in every single one just to check? Usually we can see phantom keys in systems long before any user mentions it.
Going one step further, how many people have ever tried to unlock someone elses house with their own house key? It's just not something to worry about.

[Jinglesanator]

Thanks everyone!