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key for Yale Bicentric help needed

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10ringo10

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Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:05 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Don't know if its correct jeff....I am just pissing in the wind
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escapenrv

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Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:39 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Thanks Ringo and Jeff et al. I will try to find and try those suggested keys. I will also look for the S & D info. Will this depth info be true for whatever yale key way in a Bicentric?
Still learning.....thanks to all.
Steve
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10ringo10

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Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:53 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

We all are still learning steve - we are on the journey with you in this case ... the S&D have been tried and tested to work.

see the topic in the advanced search mr pharma who bought bicentric if I recall jeff and I went on a journey there too.
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escapenrv

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Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Thanks for the info Ringo and Jeff. I will try to find proper blanks around town or I'll order some. I'm going to try filing a key from my homemade blank using one of the codes Ringo sent.
My question is, are the depths you posted Ringo, good for any bicentric key way? My keyway opening is almost .294 high and the info you posted has a 0 cut as .268. I guess I can file the whole blank down to the zero cut first and then make the others. I hope there is not too much space on the pin side of the blank. I'll see what happens.
Thanks again for all the help....
Steve
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jones

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Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

The 997 key you found is normally used for a wafer tumbler lock. My info says the key you need is a ilco # 997D or Silca YA3R
the depths I have:
0 /268
1 /250
2 /232
3 /214
4 /196
5 /178
6 /160
7 /142

the spacing is 150 and the code I have for 22030 is 15658 bow to tip
I use a Framon but the HPC# C56 10400 is 98443
Unfortunately codesource doesn't have a code for 40131 so maybe I'm all wrong
I will look in my Framon depth & space book, sometimes the right code series can be found. That code has prolly not been reprinted in years
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escapenrv

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:00 am

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Jones...
Thanks for the info. That is the depth info that I am going to try. I will check the keys you suggested...the one I'm using just fit well. I will hunt the right blanks after I get a lock open and some keys made.
I may not have been clear about the numbers in my post. The first column is the number on the operating plug and the second is the key cut code from Ringo and checked with a local LS. I will cut one today and see if it works.

1033 22030
1826 40131
3087 10400

Thanks again for your help......
Steve
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escapenrv

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:17 am

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Key did not work :(

I made the following key for the operating plug numbered 3087
Code: 1-0-4-0-0
cuts: ,250-,268-.196-.268-.268 at spaces of : .150-.290-.430-.570-.710
I can feel the two pins at 1 and 3 engage the key and they feel normal for spacing.
I will ask the wife to throw the locks in with me if can't open them before I pass on !!!!!!
Steve
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10ringo10

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:02 am

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Go 1 depth deeper on all cuts and retry - steve
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escapenrv

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:45 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Ringo...
That did not work either. I may try to impression from here and see where I get.

I can see the no.1 bottom pin in the key way as it is short. The best I can tell it is a .150 length pin but that does not match anything I have about the Yale locks. I doubt that it has a master pin above it.
I did try to pick the master plug today and got a large false set like it has one or more spool pins. My picks do not work in that key way very well so I continue to work on the operating plugs.
Thanks once again for your help....
Steve
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jones

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

If this padlock accepts full sized keys then those codes may be different. Full sized keys will use 2 additional depths, but the chart I'm thinking of has 200 spacing, instead of the 150 you described. So annoying, seeing those numbers stamped into what look like brand new locks. I wonder if Yale would have even bothered to release the codes for these special padlocks. If those are as new as they look, that would def make them hard to pick.
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mercurial

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Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:29 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

One idea, given that you have established the correct cut spacing by impressioning, you could try bumping the lock. If you have the correct spacing, the cut depth isn't critical, you just need to be at or slightly lower than the deepest cut used in that lock's bitting.

If you remove the shoulder of the key completely, and replace it with a rubber spacer(s), you can avoid denting the face of the plug. Using a rubber spacer or a spring also helps when trying to bump a lock that is full of security pins. For example : http://youtu.be/tyTR-Y4EeFI

I'm not a fan of bumping - I pick locks for the challenge - but in this case it is a valid means to your intended end, ie being able to open the locks to make keys.

I am not familiar with these specific padlocks, but are you sure what seemed to be a deep false set when picking the master plug wasn't actually a successful picking attempt? The return spring on some padlocks is so strong that when picked, the plug turns until it meets the heavy spring resistance & then seems to stop, as if in a false set, when in reality all that is needed is some extra torque & the lock will open. If you pick it to that position again, either try applying heavy tension, or lighten the tension and see if trying to lift any of the pins causes counter rotation. If there is counter rotation, then obviously it is a false set.

Hope that helps,

...Mark
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10ringo10

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Post Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:05 am

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

jones wrote:So annoying, seeing those numbers


Good point does make you wonder ? why 4 digit and not 5 on the bicentric was it a code series that was kept secret or did they just miss a digit off the code to

piss locksmiths off in the present day lol :D
mercurial wrote:One idea, given that you have established the correct cut spacing by impressioning, you could try bumping the lock. If you have the correct spacing, the cut depth isn't critical, you just need to be at or slightly lower than the deepest cut used in that lock's bitting.


needs must when locks defy logic and worth consideration - excellent point

get them steve - there sat there laughing... keep us updated buddy
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escapenrv

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Post Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:40 am

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Thanks everyone....I'm glad I can entertain a few folks.
When I got the false set, I tried using a heavy wrench like Patterson makes. The plug would not turn anymore. I could not get the shackle to move out either. I tried to back off a bit and let the plug rotate just a bit but I could not get any counter rotation from any pin. When I removed more tension it reset all the pins. I may try this again just to see but my picks have a hard time up in that narrow key way.
I thought I might make a bump key with what is left of my impressioning attempt. These locks do seem to be quite new and/or unused. Only one has any sign of use outside a box.
I have asked the seller to provide some history but have not heard from him. I also sent photos like I posted here to Yale Lock to see if they could/ would give me any info about the key ways or the locks and keys. I have not heard from them either.
I have to run out today so I am going to stop by another LS shop to see if I can afford their help.
Maybe I should write a newbe book........
Steve
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escapenrv

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Post Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

UPDATE on Bicentric lock progress
Impressioning attempt did not work.
Well, I made a bump key but it does not work.
Used an electric pickgun on two of the locks...no progress.
I did leave one of the locks with a local LS shop about a week ago. Have not heard from them yet. They said they could pick it...we will see.
I may check Ebay for cutting torch or C4 next or I just may take a nap instead.
Steve
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10ringo10

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Post Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: key for Yale Bicentric help needed

Go for the bypass steve the barrels are not fixed to the lever at the back the tail piece simply lifts it up or down when rotation occurs when key is inserted

the lever is spring loaded and pivots from side to side - 2 wire attempt to gain movement

its accessible straight threw key way - see if you can move it to open :shorthook:

when you have insert wire - pick and it comes to a stop at the back of keyway this is the pivot lever your feeling you need movement on this .. apply lots of pressure
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