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Rake Key Stuck

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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:04 am

Rake Key Stuck

Hi Guys,

Practicing with some rake keys earlier, managed to get a turn, but only halfway - now its stuck. Cant get it out.

Any help?
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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:06 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

I posted this in Uber-noob because that is exactly what I am, and am hoping that I can get this sorted with minimal effort.
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MBI

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Site Owner

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Location: Utah, USA

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:14 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

A picture is worth a thousand words.
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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:32 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Image

I hope this uploads correctly
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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:33 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Here's the back

Image
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Neilau

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Location: Australia

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:13 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Hi.

Have you tried turning the lock back to the vertical?

Not being familiar with the lock and assuming that you have turned the “key” in the right direction it looks like the lock is a key retaining type and you have encountered spool pins.

Otherwise, it is a key detaining lock and you have turned it in the wrong direction.

I see you have one of UKBumpkey’s rake keys. In my opinion, these are gimmicks. If they worked they would have been used for eons. I have never seen them till recently and I think you can see why they were/are never/rarely used.

If you want to learn to pick locks get some proper picks and torsion tools and start off with some cheap Chinese locks then move on up in quality. Don’t start on your front door as it could be expensive to get fixed if it all goes pear shaped.

Don’t worry, I’m sure we have all been sucked in by some gimmicky picking device. I actually wasted a few $s on a set of comb picks. An electric pick gun will open a lot of locks but where’s the fun in that?? If you are a Locksmith then it is a tool of the trade and useful but this is about developing the skills to pick locks and the buzz that you get when they finally pop.

If everything is frozen up then I think you might be in a bit of trouble but I’m sure someone on this site with more skills than me might have a solution.

Just my two pence.

Cheers.
Clark's Law (Arthur C)

For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.
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MBI

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Site Owner

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Location: Utah, USA

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:45 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

If I'm not mistaken, that kind of modified key is where the term "Keypicking" came from. It's possible to open some locks that way, especially if they have a really easy bitting and warding, but it's not very consistent.

With the small amount of turning you've got there, I wonder if somehow you've gotten a spool pin wedged in place with a false set. Is there any wiggle at all to the key?
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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:53 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

There is a lot of wiggle,

and as per the previous comment, yes it is UKbumpkeys, and I just giot it for a bit of fun to get me going, and have paid the price a bit now. Not that the key didn't do its job, it did, but I used it incorrectly and am now in he cack slightly.

I think its gonna have to be a case of calling someone out to remove it.

I have a tradiction slimline pick set with rake pick which I was going to attempt placing into it aside the lock, but my main train of thought is "I made a mistake because I have little experience, and then potentially making it even worse by doing more with my little experience"

Grrr. Lesson learned.

Know any Birmingham Uk people I can call. :(
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selim

User avatar

Diabolical Pinning Master & Lock Philanthropist
Diabolical Pinning Master & Lock Philanthropist

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Location: Maine

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:22 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

nice door ; and lock, hope you learned THE lesson, don't mess with locks in use!

SORRY just woke up
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Scab

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 am

Location: West Midlands

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:49 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Yep, got slightly overexcited :)

Never again.

Thanks for your advice and quick responses anyway guys.
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Violaetor

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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:46 am

Location: Ontario, Canada

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:41 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

What has happened here, like most of have done with picks (and you'll notice in videos you never see anyone turn a plug more than a quarter turn), is that you have the rake key only half way in and, with a half turn, the back 2-3 pins have been pushed up into the plug by the springs (which would normally be retained by the key fully inserted)

This is easily remedied by pressing them down with the back of a pick or wrench when a key ISN'T in there and rotating the plug back.

So if you have anything slim enough to fit down the side of the key atop the bitting you could possibly press down those back top pins and rotate the plug, but very unlikely, probably better off disassembling.
Image
Looking to get something made? Send me a PM!
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rai

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Location: minneapolis

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:57 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

I don't know that lock, or that key, but what violator is saying sounds like it could be the problem. if you have a very thin feeler gauge to use up on the solution, you might be able to get it without taking the lock apart, but it really depends on the warding of that keyway. and you would have to cut it to fit the part of the keyway where those pins are trapping the plug. A thin feeler gauge could be cut with a sissors, but you still have to sand the edge and get it smooth so it dosen't introduce more problems like getting stuck then bent etc.

more likely someone who knows locks would have to dissasemble that lock and press the pins up from the back side of the cylinder if its possible.

Worst case, you would have to replace the entire lockset and have the new one keyed and masterkeyed to the system that may be part of.
that would get expensive,

I did learn from MBI what the word keypicking means, I have some old marshal keys I got in some trade but never used, they're for cars though.

keypicking........hmm very likey this could have happened to a more experienced picker, unfamiliar with this tool, you would have had to see a few moves ahead to know this could happen,
experienced pickers probably never use those things.
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Farmerfreak

Active Member

Posts: 464

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:00 pm

Location: SLC, Utah

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:08 am

Re: Rake Key Stuck

If a thin shim can't go down the side of the key and get to the driver pins locking up the cylinder. More likely than not the unfortunate truth is that the lock will need to be drilled in order to take it apart. Because the cam in the middle is most likely turned to a position that it cannot be removed.
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Farmerfreak

Active Member

Posts: 464

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:00 pm

Location: SLC, Utah

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Farmerfreak wrote:If a thin shim can't go down the side of the key and get to the driver pins locking up the cylinder. More likely than not the unfortunate truth is that the lock will need to be drilled in order to take it apart. Because the cam in the middle is most likely turned to a position that it cannot be removed.


Now I'm second guessing myself. "If" the thumb turn still locks/unlocks the door then it won't need to be drilled.
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huxleypig

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Location: West Mids, UK

Post Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:29 pm

Re: Rake Key Stuck

Man, what a nasty little situation! So it's like when you've picked a lock and rotate it round 180 and it gets stuck so you just push a pick in to push the drivers back down. Only there's a key in the way that won't come out!

I'd guess the thumbturn would operate the lock still IF the drivers weren't sticking out. The thumbturn always operates the cam doesn't it?
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