Schlage questions

[OneManClan]

hi, first of all, what's the difference between a schlage SC1, and an SC4? i cant find any info on this? i do a google image search, i get pics of keys. regular google search yealds nothing.

it aint the keyway type, cuz both can have c keyways. it aint the pin amount, cuz ive seen SC1's on ebay with 6 pins. is it the keyway width?

another question is, wtf diameter tension tool you guys using for the C keyways? specifically, when picking clockwise.
my southord tension tools dig into the cylinder housing. my sparrow tension tools which are a few hundreths of an mm thinner in width [mesured with a caliper] lock up too. the tiny sparrow tension tools slip straight to a vertical position, and lock up too. the fat sparrow tension tools dont lock up, but they get in the way of the damn pick! top of the keyway tensioning works of course, but i like BOK tensioning.

thanks for the info..

[MBI]

SC1 is five pin, SC4 is six pin, and as you already noticed, both are the C keyway.
If someone advertised a six pin lock as SC1 they didn't understand the difference.

I prefer TOK on that keyway. If I need to use BOK for some reason on that keyway I tend to use a wide wrench to prevent the wedging you were talking about.

[elbowmacaroni]

Hey there and welcome to the board!

first of all, what's the difference between a schlage SC1, and an SC4?

SC4 is longer.

another question is, wtf diameter tension tool you guys using for the C keyways? specifically, when picking clockwise.
my southord tension tools dig into the cylinder housing. my sparrow tension tools which are a few hundreths of an mm thinner in width [mesured with a caliper] lock up too. the tiny sparrow tension tools slip straight to a vertical position, and lock up too. the fat sparrow tension tools dont lock up, but they get in the way of the damn pick! top of the keyway tensioning works of course, but i like BOK tensioning.

Diameter? Generally TWs are flat. However, I'll just assume you meant width. Honestly, so long as it doesn't slip, it fits and doesn't interfere with your pick the width is immaterial. Learn to like TOK and use it unless there is a specific reason to not. Using BOK tensioning is more likely to interfere with your pick as well as the fact that TOK doesn't impart near as much lateral forces as BOK. Also, TOK is not going to bind on the cylinder wall. Another thing to consider in BOK vs TOK is that due to the placement of the TW when using TOK, you're doing more turning and have better control over the actual amount of applied torsion forces.


Hope this helps some...

-Elbow

[OneManClan]

thanks for the info... ok i guess it was a typo.

Yea, i meant width... not diameter,. TOK is cool, but i control the TW better on the bottom. and the fat TW gets in the way with a southord hook. plus i cant practice picking using TOK while holding a cylinder or mortise. if anyone knows the exact mesurements, please let me know. if its even possible. ill prolly dump the pins so the cylider moves frely, and dremel a fat wrench little by little and figure it out. if i find the exact size, ill post it mesuring using a caliper.

[piotr]

plus i cant practice picking using TOK while holding a cylinder or mortise.

Buy a small hobby vise. You shouldn't be holding lock cylinders in your hands whilst picking them. Doing so will screw up your manual dexterity because you will become reliant on moving the lock -- as opposed to the pick -- to navigate the keyway and pins. Even if you don't intend to you will subconsciously do so. Then when it comes time to actually pick a lock in a door you will struggle. Only hold those locks that you would hold if you were in the field, i.e. padlocks, bike locks etc. I think this is amongst the most important lessons I have learnt regarding lock picking training.

[OneManClan]

i got a mini suction vice. i pick locks while holding them, cuz im still getting used to the feel of the picking. im new at it. and yea, ill pop it into my vice when im concentrating on actually picking it. problem is, i just went froma low tolerance EZ REKEY, while picks exactly from the back pin to the front, to a real 6 pin shlage mortise. i swear, the american 5200 i finally scrubbed open feels like it has less tollerence than this dam lock.

[Solomon]

I've only picked one standard schlage lock that was sent to me, cos I'm not in the US. Tolerances are pretty tight, so I find more tension is actually better. You don't really get any feedback if you focus on using the lightest tension known to man, whereas if you pile it on a bit, the binding pin will jump out at you and the sets are super crisp. Don't go overboard with it or anything, just use enough that you can feel that binding pin and it moves without having to force it. You should be able to feel the binding pin easily, and the sets will both feel and sound very noticeable.

Stroke gently towards yourself from the back of the plug, and once you're on that binding pin (you'll hit a wall, so to speak, so that's the one you want), just push it up slooooowly til you feel that big click. Take care when moving forwards again so you don't lift anything inadvertently. If a pin clicks straight away as soon as you scoop under it, make sure not to push it any more than that. If you take your time and don't push on anything you're not sure about it should be easy enough. You'll get the feel for it in time, but basically if you take your time wih it, the binding pin should always be sitting very low so it'll be realy obvious what you should be focusing on.

The one I have has a bitting of 228499 and a binding order of 213654. I can pick that with a short hook no problem even though 4 sets quite a bit higher than 3. So don't be intimidated by the bitting or anything either, just feel feel feel and take your time. It might be beneficial to pin it up progressively, cos the feel I'm talking about will be a lot easier to learn that way at first.

[OneManClan]

Thanks for the info, Solomon. good stuff!
as far as biting, the one i got has 222222 cuts on the key, lol. got it here cheap.. 9 bucks!.. still more available too. gonna grab another one so when i get used to the binding order on mine, ill have a fresh one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321018190128?ss ... 1439.l2649

[the lockpickkid]

Somebody down in my area is or was cutting 5 pin schlage on sc4 blanks, they all had the tips ground down. Some peoples kids!

[Wizer]

Somebody down in my area is or was cutting 5 pin schlage on sc4 blanks, they all had the tips ground down. Some peoples kids!

I would suspect 5-pin Schlages are so common over there, that they really should carry proper blanks for it. But for some not so common locks I only order the longer version. Like some Tricircle and CES blanks. No need to have different lengths of those. I´m running out of hooks on the wall anyway...

[the lockpickkid]

We have alot of fly by night unlicensed guys here, they will cobble anything for anybody just to try to make a dime. There are wannabe locksmiths, plumbers, builders etc.

[Libertyclicks]

Buy a small hobby vise. I think this is amongst the most important lessons I have learnt regarding lock picking training.

Thanks for the tip. I can open every lock I have but the cheapest knob had me stumped.

[rai]

if bottom of keyway tension is turning and wedging, you can put a piece of paper clip in the bottom of the keyway to prevent that, the round wire will not friction lock on the cylinder wall and it will keep the tensor from getting in a bind. you should leave a small circle of the metal to keep it from getting lost deep in the keyway and to keep the piece on ring or other attachment,
larger paper clips are made of thicker wire. design the keyway filler to be out of the way below the keyway when in use.

[verz]

I have been playing with a 5 pin schlage (not sure which model) I had a hard time using BOK but as soon as I started using TOK things were much easier.