Can't SPP much of anything

[ecksdee]

I feel like an incredible noob right now. I cannot get a feel for any lock I try except my one kwikset trainer lock and a couple of horrendously cheap masterlock knock offs that are easier than a whore giving out free samples. I am struggling immensely with a baldwin that I have (which was clearly bitted by a madman, although repinnning it doesn't seem to help me much either) , and a magnum 240 which I used to be able to SPP based on muscle memory, but not on feel. I can't pick a damn thing, and it's extremely discouraging after lots of practice and quite a bit of money on tools. I've been picking for almost two months now, at least an hour a day, often a lot more. Why no love?



I should point out that I have literally killed every lock in my house (including my maddeningly pinned 1-9-1-9-1 baldwin) with my bogota toolset, but there is luck involved there, and I highly doubt that luck will hold when I get a whiff of something with more than a single spool, much less a sidebar

[xeo]

how much tension are you using?

what pick are you using?

what tensioner are you using? top or bottom of keyway?

[ecksdee]

I've experimented with a lot of different tension levels- I try to use the absolute lightest tension I can, but sometimes I'll work with heavier tension too. I only have like three tension tools that are reliable though. One is a basic made out of plumbing snake, one is a southord twist (long) and one is a peterson prybar. I'm still getting the hang of the prybar. My other tension tools are pretty much abjectly horrible so I don't even touch them (think coat hangars and pen clips)

Oh, I suppose I also use my bogotas as tension tools sometimes, but they don't always do the best job of gripping in the lock.

So I use both bottom and top, but I'm pretty bad at top still.

My picks are: A Peterson short (gov. steel) a gem (carbon) and a southord euro slimline short.

I have other picks, but seeing as SPP is what I'm trying to do here, they don't really matter.

[Aedalas]

Just some thoughts based on my own style here.

Try to get used to the prybar, I find it incredibly frustrating to use anything else. I've custom made wrenches for locks that still don't hold a candle to my prybar.

TOK is the way to go. It's weird at first but you get used to it. Like the prybar, you will never look back.

What kind of handles on your Petersons? Mine are rubber and kill a lot of feedback imo. I love the picks (best mass produced there is [until LSA proves me wrong]) but they do hinder you a little. Are you keeping a finger in contact with the pick shaft near the face of the lock? That can help make up for loss of feedback from a soft handle. Help, not overcome. A bare metal handle would likely be the best, though uncomfortable.

I'm a fan of varying tension too, try putting a LOT of tension on your lock to find the binding pin. Then you go back to light to actually pick it. I use this on almost everything I do, the binding pin stands out like a sore thumb that way and you aren't killing your picks because you let off before you actually try to move the pin.

[LockManipulator]

Get a cutaway. They're bad if you've never picked a lock before in my opinion but since you have, I think that knowing what's happening while focusing on the feeling you get at the same time from the pick will help you connect what's happening inside the lock with what feedback you are receiving.

[mdc5150]

Since you have the ability to repin a lock dump all but the first two pins, pick and repeat. When you feel it well on your fingertips put another pin in and pick again. Do that until you are able to pick it with all 5 pins.

That is how I got to SPP finally. Same with American locks. I got a bunch of advice here that helped but I also pinned an American with only two pins to start and worked it out to the end.

[Farmerfreak]

I can't pick a damn thing, and it's extremely discouraging after lots of practice and quite a bit of money on tools. I've been picking for almost two months now, at least an hour a day, often a lot more. Why no love?

Everyone has shared some good advice. I'm just going to point out that two months isn't exactly a lot of time to get proficient at SPPing. It may seem like it's a lot now, but trust me, it isn't. Learning to SPP effectively and efficiently takes a lot of time, patience and practice (years for most people). I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to put things into perspective. Even those that are very fast learners and unnaturally good at picking (xeo) didn't get good without tons of practice.

I guess rule# 1 should be don't give up and keep asking yourself and others questions. Like "Why does such and such pin feel like this or that?..." Although for the most part if you ask me. (while a lock is being tensioned) I'll tell you that pins are either springy or the aren't, the pin(s) that aren't springy need to be moved to a different depth where they are springy. And pin(s) that are springy need to be left alone. Even though picking really is that simple, it can take a lot of practice to be able to feel that often subtle difference between springy and non springy (binding).

[Aedalas]

Learning to SPP effectively and efficiently takes a lot of time, patience and practice (years for most people). I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to put things into perspective. Even those that are very fast learners and unnaturally good at picking (xeo) didn't get good without tons of practice.

This, this, this. I'm a very fast learner, it's my one seriously good talent. I've always been able to pick up anything I've tried incredibly fast without really trying, I just sort of "know" what to do. Lockpicking has been a LOT different than what I'm used to, this skill is taking a LONG time to master. I got the basics really quick, but it's taking me lots and lots of work to see some very minor improvements. I think that is why I like it so much though, it's a challenge that I'm not accustomed to. Stick with it, because it takes so long to see improvement it feels so much better when you finally do.

[piotr]

I think a set of progressively pinned cylinders might be useful for you. Start with the cylinder with just one pin-stack and work your way up to the fully-pinned cylinder. I think this would be a good way to get a feeling of the spatial arrangement of the innards of the cylinder and the feel of an individual pin stack without the "noise" of the the other stacks.

Using the progressively-pinned cylinders learn to be deliberate about which pin stack you are are manipulating. Intend to manipulate a particular stack then navigate your pick to that stack and move it.

You can also refine your tensioning method using the cylinder with just one pin stack. You can experience at first-hand and thereby gain a tactile sense of the linear relationship between tensioning and binding friction. It is one thing to cerebrally understand that: Binding Friction ∝ Torque but it is another thing to know this in a tactile/muscular way.

Hope this helps.

[xeo]

So are you able to detect a binding pin?

[10ringo10]

All valid good points heres a few more.
Tention is the key,when applying tention it is crucial that tention is released at points to allow the pin to set.
Try picking the lock by tentioning clockwise and anti clockwise.
Picking at a angle,and bouncing the pick.
Dont start at the back of the pin stack as a rule, SET PINS from the front as well.
The trick that all good lockpickers learn is,the TIME for a pin thats overpicked to reset ITS SELF.

[Aedalas]

piotr is right about progressivly pinning, I like that method a lot too. But I'd recommend against starting with just one pin stack, you will pick that way too easy and not even feel what happened since as soon as it sets the lock is open. I'd start with two. That way you have to set at least one pin.

[ecksdee]

Thanks for all the help guys- I know I'm still extremely inexperienced, but I was still hoping I'd make progress a bit faster. I CAN detect binding pins in my super-cheap locks and my kwikset, which I have successfully picked progressively pinned, but I fail the moment the bitting gets bad.

[mdc5150]

Don't get discouraged, we all start somewhere. You will have a breakthrough at some point and it will all come together for you. Then at some point you will hit a wall again and need to figure out something else. That's what it's all about and this is the place to get help.

[ecksdee]

So what do I do to conquer tough bittings without oversetting pins, losing track of what's going on in the keyway, or a nasty combination of both?