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Help with supposed easy lock

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Alaway

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:14 am

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:24 am

Help with supposed easy lock

Hi!

I'm new here because I need some help but i've been practicing picking locks for a little bit with a simple start kit.

Now, I've tried and succeeded on a bunch of locks (easy ones i'm sure) but there's this one that I actually tried at my office when the guy lost the key and the other one with the double was out and I couldn't get it to work.

It's a lock on a doorknob, that prevents you from turning the knob when locked and i'm pretty sure it's a cheap one. I can get what I feel like is all the pins and i get the lock to turn quite a bit, like too far for it to make sense to still have pins blocking the way, but it won't quite turn to 90 degrees and unlock the door. I've tried multiple times and I always end up in that situation, when I get what I feel is the last pin, there's a sudden loose and i can turn my tension wrench quite a lot more but it still won't unlock.

We reached the guy with the key and everything but it's been bugging me ever since and i'd like very much to know what i was doing wrong if any of you has any ideas.

Thanks
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Riyame

Keeper of the Bests / Supreme Overlord of Small Format Interchangeable Picking Nightmares

Posts: 1964

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Location: Canada

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:28 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

Welcome to the forum.

We suggest you do not pick locks in use. A picture would help identify the lock.
PhoneMan: I always knew I'd say something stupid and it would be someone's sig
macgng: i am an equal opportunity pervert
macgng: aww fuck thats goin in someone sig :-(

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic.
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Alaway

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:14 am

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:37 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

Oh yes, I usually don't but this was just a special case.

Also here's a picture of the lock I had on my phone, no idea of the make though.

https://imgur.com/a/D8WpZ
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Anarchy_won

User avatar

Active Member

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Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:27 pm

Location: Ontario, Canada

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:05 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

not to be mean but if its in use and you are not a locksmith leave it alone. if you pick it and 6 months later it jams up and someone gets trapped in you will be liable.
(17:44:28) HAL 9000 Sez: LockSport is full of children who throw fits because low priced low security products sold in discount department stores do not meet their arbitrary expectations.
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Alaway

Newbie

Posts: 3

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:14 am

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:35 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

I gotta admit I didn't think of it that way, it was just a spur of the moment thing.

Said that way it makes a lot more sense not to touch it, i'll make sure not to do it again...
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mercurial

Familiar Face

Posts: 190

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:11 pm

Location: Australia

Post Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:33 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

Smart choice deciding not to pick locks that are in use in future. As anarchy_won pointed out, you don't want to be blamed should the lock malfunction in future. Also, if you are known to be able to pick locks, guess who will be the first person under suspicion if things start going missing?

My best guess for the lock not opening given what you described is that you were turning the plug in the wrong direction.
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JamesOzment1

Familiar Face

Posts: 48

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:56 pm

Location: Bridge City, Texas

Post Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

welcome to the forum.
some here are uptight. just try to pick it in the other direction. which direction did you originally pick it? clockwise? counter clockwise? it matters.
usually a KIK (key in knob) opens on counter clockwise . a deadbolt usually opens opposite the door latch. some odd locks may be different in special circumstances.
also try turning the door knob as you turn the tension wrench . some doorknobs have springs inside that the plug will engage once picked and turned to a certain point .
hope this helps.



ps : picking in use locks does not harm them in any way if you know what you are doing.
the only damage that can be caused is usually because of old locks with crud in them or broken internal parts.
just make sure the picks are polished smooth with no sharp edges ,and dont go jabbing the shit out of the lock.
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mercurial

Familiar Face

Posts: 190

Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:11 pm

Location: Australia

Post Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:42 pm

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

There is more to not picking locks in use than just breaking them, especially if they are locks in the workplace, as described above.

Without permission/directions from a manager with the right authority, a person could be jeopardising their job by picking a lock, even if asked to by somebody who holds a key to the lock who has lost/forgotten to bring it.

A person claiming to have lost their key may in fact have been relieved of it by management to keep them out of the locked area in question & picking the lock for them because they have "lost" their key could be a quick way to get fired.

Those sorts of issues aside, you are right that "if you know what you are doing picking a lock in use is harmless", but depending on the lock in question, "knowing what you are doing" can require some very deep knowledge & a lot of time on hand to put things right if things do go awry - especially in the workplace where more complex locks & master keying are commonplace.

The all too common scenario of the plug getting stuck after being turned through 180 degrees due to the driver pins protruding into the keyway results in countless urgent posts for help over the years, but I concede that anybody who knows even a tiny bit about pin tumbler locks should be able to recognise and rectify that problem very easily.

Less widely known and much harder to deal with is that in the same circumstances, thin master wafers can fall into the keyway when the plug is turned through 180 degrees. Sometimes they fall all the way into the keyway, sometimes they get stuck at an angle across the shear line, jamming the plug.

It can be difficult to dislodge a jammed wafer to free the plug, and good luck working out which pin stack that wafer belongs to, and restoring that lock so that it still behaves as it should within the master key system!

Along the same line of thought, there are dimple locks that will spit pins & master wafers into the keyway if the plug is turned beyond a few degrees with only a tension wrench in the keyway.

The above only refers to issues relating to displaced pins resulting from turning a core not filled by a key. I could go on and on with other potential issues.

For a final example, if somebody manages to pick an Emhart cylinder, and the rotation of the key pins gets upset as they turn the plug, they're going to be in a world of hell trying to restore that lock to working condition, unless they have both specialised tools & the requisite knowledge. A hobby picker could end up in this situation picking a lock in use that looks to them like a normal pin tumbler. A lock with trap pins is another disaster waiting to happen to the less knowledgable.

To know what you are doing to cope with all of these potential problems means having knowledge that many/most hobby pickers will never have or need if they stay away from locks in use. They are for the most part hobby pickers, not locksmiths.

Hence my position that locks in use should be the realm of real locksmiths, who in those worst case scenario are covered by their insurance when they're knowledge is lacking & they screw up.

I don't think that I'm up tight at all, but I certainly wouldn't advise somebody who posts here saying that they're new to picking that it's ok to pick locks that are in use, "if they know what they're doing" especially when the locks in question they posted about were in their workplace.

I once felt the same way & would've posted the same thing you did on this issue, but feel differently now that I have a deeper understanding.

...Mark
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ChancoNOLLAVES

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:26 am

Location: New Mexico

Post Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

I agree with everything Mercurial said :agree: , and would like to add that even if you "know how to pick a lock", and are able to open doors without damage, you are taking money away from a legitimate licensed Locksmith. That Locksmith has invested a lot of time, money, and knowledge to his craft.
F#$% digital, analog baby.
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Patrick Star

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 233

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:40 pm

Location: Sweden

Post Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:33 pm

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

Uhm. That's like arguing that cooking your own food is taking money away from restaurant chefs. Literally like it, in fact.

(Besides - no locksmiths pick locks here. Combination of pretty high average level of pick-resistance and high taxes - it gets more expensive than buying a new lock. So at most they pick locks as a hobby. If a lock can't be bypassed and you want it open non-destructively, you pretty much have to know someone personally if you can't do it yourself.)
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GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3475

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:53 am

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

Patrick Star wrote:Uhm. That's like arguing that cooking your own food is taking money away from restaurant chefs. Literally like it, in fact.

(Besides - no locksmiths pick locks here. Combination of pretty high average level of pick-resistance and high taxes - it gets more expensive than buying a new lock. So at most they pick locks as a hobby. If a lock can't be bypassed and you want it open non-destructively, you pretty much have to know someone personally if you can't do it yourself.)


Speaking as a former restaurant chef, have to agree with you, Patrick. :D

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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ChancoNOLLAVES

Newbie

Posts: 8

Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:26 am

Location: New Mexico

Post Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:50 pm

Re: Help with supposed easy lock

I support local business and I do not like taking money away from hardworking licensed locksmiths. The town I live in is not huge, my family had a business here for years(not a locksmith shop) and I realize what a struggle it can be for some of these mom and pop shops to stay open.

The average lockout cost in my area is 50+$ , so if I open one car or house a month, lets say for a friend, that would be 600$ per year that some shop will not get.
F#$% digital, analog baby.

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