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Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

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morthawt

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Post Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:25 am

Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

I recently got a 0.020 steep hook to add to my Tuxedo EDC kit but I also see there is a high reach one. What are the pros and cons, the use-cases for these two picks? Is one more used than another? One better for EDC than another?

Also I am considering adding a worm rake to my kit but since I have a tri-peak (bogota) would there be any benefits to having their worm rake?
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madsamurai

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Post Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:59 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

morthawt wrote:Also I am considering adding a worm rake to my kit but since I have a tri-peak (bogota) would there be any benefits to having their worm rake?

Can't really speak much to the hook comparison - I like having as many different hooks as I can and find subtle differences can sometimes make a big difference, but I may be excessive in that regard, especially for EDC considerations... but I can tell you the Sparrows worm rake works really well in a lot of padlocks that don't open as quickly for me with traditional bogota-style rakes... some locks seem to respond better to the more rounded peaks rather than the sharper peaks, and I think it's good to have both on hand. I have quite a few variations of bogota-style rakes, and I tend to go to the worm first most of the time. Also a fan of the Peterson Wonder-waves set which has sharp and curved versions of 4 and 5 peak bogata sytles.
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morthawt

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Post Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

madsamurai wrote:
morthawt wrote:Also I am considering adding a worm rake to my kit but since I have a tri-peak (bogota) would there be any benefits to having their worm rake?

Can't really speak much to the hook comparison - I like having as many different hooks as I can and find subtle differences can sometimes make a big difference, but I may be excessive in that regard, especially for EDC considerations... but I can tell you the Sparrows worm rake works really well in a lot of padlocks that don't open as quickly for me with traditional bogota-style rakes... some locks seem to respond better to the more rounded peaks rather than the sharper peaks, and I think it's good to have both on hand. I have quite a few variations of bogota-style rakes, and I tend to go to the worm first most of the time. Also a fan of the Peterson Wonder-waves set which has sharp and curved versions of 4 and 5 peak bogata sytles.


Hmm thanks. I might get that when I get paid next. Do you think I should get it in 0.025" thickness? I am thinking of getting another steep hook in 0.025 since the last one was 0.020. I just like the idea of the nuclear force proof picks that are super strong. I am just not sure to what degree it matters. 301 max yield steel or what ever it is, how much of a difference is it really? I have never broken a pick, even my thin SouthOrd C801 kit. But I have seen videos of people really going to town on their picks bending the hell out of them to get pins set. So I am really curious about max yield steel picks like the Sparrows 0.025 and SouthOrd MAX to know if it really matters?
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MHM

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Post Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:16 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

Hi Morthawt. The high reach hook has a weird dimple on the top of the hook, it's pretty hard to see in the photos but it feels huge in the lock. A lot of guys don't really get along with it but Madsamuri is dead right - the larger variety of hooks you have, the better. Thickness...mainly personal preference but if you can afford to get a steep hook in two different thicknesses (say 025 and 015) then do it.

Michael.
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Tok36

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Post Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:09 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

The worm rake will in some cases fit into a keyway that a triple peak will not fit into. I think of it like a low profile triple peak.
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madsamurai

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Post Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:34 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

morthawt wrote:Do you think I should get it in 0.025" thickness? I am thinking of getting another steep hook in 0.025 since the last one was 0.020. I just like the idea of the nuclear force proof picks that are super strong. I am just not sure to what degree it matters. 301 max yield steel or what ever it is, how much of a difference is it really? I have never broken a pick, even my thin SouthOrd C801 kit. But I have seen videos of people really going to town on their picks bending the hell out of them to get pins set. So I am really curious about max yield steel picks like the Sparrows 0.025 and SouthOrd MAX to know if it really matters?

.025" is going to be just fine most of the time... It's plenty strong, and sparrows' steel is good steel. When I rake with it, I just sort of "brush" the tips of the pins, so I don't use a lot of force with it anyway (I generally don't use a lot of force for any picking, but there are a lot of locks I haven't experienced yet so I can't yet claim that heavy force is never necessary). The main advantage of thinner picks is they will fit into keyways a .025" pick won't fit into. Thinner picks also give a little better feedback, imo. I've been using the Peterson .018" hooks quite a bit... they feel much stronger than the .015" picks I have, but generally fit into all the stuff I used to use .015" for. I don't personally see a lot of advantage in buying a bunch of thin rakes, tho... I have a few tripple-peaks in .018" but rarely use them and they don't seem as effective as others for whatever reason, and I have a sparrows .015" tripple that I keep for "just in case" but also rarely find a need for.
That said, I would also tell you that's all just me... you may find other ways work better for you, and I think a big part of this game is trying out as much as you can and finding what you really like.
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macavity

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Post Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:43 pm

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

[quote=madsamurai]Thinner picks also give a little better feedback, imo.[/quote]

THANK YOU! Every where I've seen on the 'net they claim that the thinner the pick, the more it will lose the vibrations that is transmitted through it. This does not match what I feel in my fingers at all, and my argument is that the more material that needs to be put into vibration, the shallower the vibrations will be.

Anyone with a background in physics or small parts engineering who know the stop-all-arguments equation for this around?
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droshi

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Post Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:22 am

Re: Sparrows Steep Hook vs High Reach? Also work rake?

macavity wrote:
THANK YOU! Every where I've seen on the 'net they claim that the thinner the pick, the more it will lose the vibrations that is transmitted through it. This does not match what I feel in my fingers at all, and my argument is that the more material that needs to be put into vibration, the shallower the vibrations will be.

Anyone with a background in physics or small parts engineering who know the stop-all-arguments equation for this around?

I didn't think a physics degree would be needed to state the obvious. Thinner picks are weaker, but transmit feedback better, to me it's an easy statement as when you use a thin pick you can see it bend, and you can feel the feedback. The why should have to do with the Modulus of Elasticity property of the steel used, more elastic will likely have a lower yield strength, but also transmit better feedback. I don't know the exact formula for calculating the movement of one end given a sharp quick force on the other, but it certainly would need cross section (aka height x thickness) and length.

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