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Picking locks that are on a Master Key

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pickmonger2

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Location: Ontario

Post Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:13 pm

Picking locks that are on a Master Key

I was cautioned about picking locks that were on a master key system because sometimes very thin wafers were used in the pin stack that can be jammed when being picked.

Is this a real concern or someone being paranoid?
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Robotnik

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Post Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

It's a real concern. Speaking personally, I've dropped a 1 wafer out of a Schlage KIK practice lock, which lodged between the plug, shell, and end cap. Jammed the plug, had to disassemble for repair.

Additionally, as locks and wafers wear, there's a chance thinner wafers will turn sideways in the chambers, potentially rendering the lock unusable.
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pickmonger2

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Post Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:59 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

Thank you for confirming the concern.

It's one more good reason not to pick locks that are in use and that you do not own.

Screwing up the master keying system could be really serious in case of fire or medical emergency if the landlord can't get in.
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WestCoastPicks

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Location: British Columbia, Canada

Post Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

pickmonger2 wrote:Thank you for confirming the concern.

It's one more good reason not to pick locks that are in use and that you do not own.

Screwing up the master keying system could be really serious in case of fire or medical emergency if the landlord can't get in.


You should never pick locks that are in use.. If you are picking a lock that is in regular use, it should be because the owner is locked out and needs it opened. If this is the case, and you are expected to do such a thing, you would have tools to do the job no matter what.

What I'm saying is, unless you're a locksmith and there is a need for it, you shouldn't be picking locks that are being used, for reasons just like this.
If you are the guy that is supposed to be picking on locks in use (most locksmiths don't pick at all), you're the guy that carries drills and bits and other tools to make sure you're getting in no matter what. You have Locks for replacement, you have blanks, you have a key cutter, a pinning kit, all that stuff in your van.

If you're picking on locks you don't own without the owners permission, you are breaking the law and should be put in jail. Yes this includes the door locks of your rental.
If you have the owners permission, you should always tell them there is a chance you might destroy the lock, and you should have more tools on you in case that happens.
It's not always because they don't have a key, sometimes locks fail, people put stuff in the keyway, break off keys half way in, etc...
You should have a replacement lock, blank keys, pins, drill, bits, key cutter, and other misc tools to make sure you can leave it the way it was before. That's an awful lot of stuff to have on hand, just to practice picking a lock in use, or break the law or whatever the case is.
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pickmonger2

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Posts: 285

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:33 pm

Location: Ontario

Post Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:51 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

I am the rental agent and would never pick the locks on any of our apartments . My problem was that the tenant changed their lock themselves and moved out.

I had the maintenance guy drill the lock. I needed a locksmith to re key the apartment's lock (because it's master keyed ) and then I installed the new lock set preserving the master keyed system.
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WestCoastPicks

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Post Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:20 am

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

pickmonger2 wrote:I am the rental agent and would never pick the locks on any of our apartments . My problem was that the tenant changed their lock themselves and moved out.

I had the maintenance guy drill the lock. I needed a locksmith to re key the apartment's lock (because it's master keyed ) and then I installed the new lock set preserving the master keyed system.


Nice, yeah the tenant that changed his lock should have first asked permission. People worry about they security and want to install a better lock, and that's understandable. But they should ask the owner first, and supply them with a key. Legally, the land owner must have access to the building/apartment.
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magician59

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Post Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:12 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

" (most locksmiths don't pick at all)"
Who told you this? I am a locksmith...I've been a it for over 40 years. I pick locks all the time!
Nemo Malus Felix
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dmasters

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Post Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

magician59 wrote:" (most locksmiths don't pick at all)"
Who told you this? I am a locksmith...I've been a it for over 40 years. I pick locks all the time!


For me it always depended on the situation and what I was up against. Kwikset or Weiser? Picked in 30 seconds, if that. Schlage? I gave myself a time limit based on how well the lock was responding to the picking. Yale or Corbin Russwin? Didn't even bother trying, out came the drill :bird: Oh, and I had the drill jig for the control lug on SFIC :D Time is money, both the customer's and mine.

In practice, though, I found masterkeyed locks to be easier to pick because there was more choices, if you will, of shear line. Picked locks always got new springs and pins and a good cleaning/lubing regardless.
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magician59

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Post Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:58 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

True that about time. I set a two-minute time for my picking an anxious customer's lock. But picking is ALWAYS my first line of attack (That's how I discovered that Medeco cam locks CAN be picked. Also, many young lockies seem to be afraid of the picks. Too many of them reach for the drill too quickly.
Nemo Malus Felix
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WestCoastPicks

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Location: British Columbia, Canada

Post Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:40 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

magician59 wrote:" (most locksmiths don't pick at all)"
Who told you this? I am a locksmith...I've been a it for over 40 years. I pick locks all the time!


Lol that's why I said most. Of the over 30 locksmiths I know and frequent, one of them picks. Talking to most locksmiths in person, they tell me time is money and that they never pick. The one that does, does it for fun and rarely does it for work.

That it what they tell me. Most locksmiths don't pick.
I obviously you do, you're on a lock picking forum. Lol
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oldbiscuit

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Post Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:00 am

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

I'm the locksmith for our local collage and I'm responsible for over 30 buildings and hundreds of doors. We use Sargent locks and everything is master keyed. We also have an off site housing complex that I'm responsible for. I'll bet on average I will pick at least 1 lock every couple of days, either because a pin or spring has worn out and keys wont work or someone sticks something foreign in the keyway. Some times it's just a simple desk or file cabinet lock that someone has misplaced the keys for. But your right about master wafer pins, it's real easy if your raking a cylinder to pop a wafer out of place and have it go sideways in the pin hole. It's usually still pickable, but it adds a lot more frustration to the job.
"It never fails - as soon as I find the key to success, somebody changes the lock!"
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aoyue2702

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Post Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:31 am

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

WestCoastPicks wrote:
pickmonger2 wrote:Thank you for confirming the concern.

It's one more good reason not to pick locks that are in use and that you do not own.

Screwing up the master keying system could be really serious in case of fire or medical emergency if the landlord can't get in.


You should never pick locks that are in use.. If you are picking a lock that is in regular use, it should be because the owner is locked out and needs it opened. If this is the case, and you are expected to do such a thing, you would have tools to do the job no matter what.

What I'm saying is, unless you're a locksmith and there is a need for it, you shouldn't be picking locks that are being used, for reasons just like this.
If you are the guy that is supposed to be picking on locks in use (most locksmiths don't pick at all), you're the guy that carries drills and bits and other tools to make sure you're getting in no matter what. You have Locks for replacement, you have blanks, you have a key cutter, a pinning kit, all that stuff in your van.

If you're picking on locks you don't own without the owners permission, you are breaking the law and should be put in jail. Yes this includes the door locks of your rental.
If you have the owners permission, you should always tell them there is a chance you might destroy the lock, and you should have more tools on you in case that happens.
It's not always because they don't have a key, sometimes locks fail, people put stuff in the keyway, break off keys half way in, etc...
You should have a replacement lock, blank keys, pins, drill, bits, key cutter, and other misc tools to make sure you can leave it the way it was before. That's an awful lot of stuff to have on hand, just to practice picking a lock in use, or break the law or whatever the case is.



You might as well just flat out accuse the OP of being a criminal...

I don't understand why you suspect he's picking locks in a criminal manor ???
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WestCoastPicks

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Posts: 187

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:45 am

Location: British Columbia, Canada

Post Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:03 pm

Re: Picking locks that are on a Master Key

aoyue2702 wrote:
WestCoastPicks wrote:
pickmonger2 wrote:Thank you for confirming the concern.

It's one more good reason not to pick locks that are in use and that you do not own.

Screwing up the master keying system could be really serious in case of fire or medical emergency if the landlord can't get in.


You should never pick locks that are in use.. If you are picking a lock that is in regular use, it should be because the owner is locked out and needs it opened. If this is the case, and you are expected to do such a thing, you would have tools to do the job no matter what.

What I'm saying is, unless you're a locksmith and there is a need for it, you shouldn't be picking locks that are being used, for reasons just like this.
If you are the guy that is supposed to be picking on locks in use (most locksmiths don't pick at all), you're the guy that carries drills and bits and other tools to make sure you're getting in no matter what. You have Locks for replacement, you have blanks, you have a key cutter, a pinning kit, all that stuff in your van.

If you're picking on locks you don't own without the owners permission, you are breaking the law and should be put in jail. Yes this includes the door locks of your rental.
If you have the owners permission, you should always tell them there is a chance you might destroy the lock, and you should have more tools on you in case that happens.
It's not always because they don't have a key, sometimes locks fail, people put stuff in the keyway, break off keys half way in, etc...
You should have a replacement lock, blank keys, pins, drill, bits, key cutter, and other misc tools to make sure you can leave it the way it was before. That's an awful lot of stuff to have on hand, just to practice picking a lock in use, or break the law or whatever the case is.



You might as well just flat out accuse the OP of being a criminal...

I don't understand why you suspect he's picking locks in a criminal manor ???


Not sure where you got that from. When I tell people the rules of locksport "don't pick locks you don't own or are in use". I am not accusing them of anything. When I explain why and how and such it is also not accusing a person.

Maybe you're reading too far into my post?

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