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Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

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madsamurai

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Post Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:02 pm

Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

So, it's been a while since I've been especially active on the forum here... there's been much to do with moving again, rebuilding my little workshop and getting things all organized, and all of the distractions of regular life. However I haven't been idle in all that time. Thought I'd share a little bit of what I've been up to.

Firstly, I've finally gotten around to mounting the majority of my safe locks, and I'm pretty thrilled with how they turned out:
Image
The boards are 3/4" red oak with a rubbed oil finish, and I found a local laser-engraving service that is really affordable and does pretty fantastic work, so they're all clearly marked with their model number, basic details and ratings... I'll be making some narrow shelves next week to display them up on the wall. I still have a couple Diebold 177's to finish, but don't have dials for them (well, I have one, but the spindle is too short) so I'm on the hunt for those, and I made up a few more for locks I plan to buy in the next few months.

Second (and imho a little more exciting), if you're looking closely and paying attention, you may have noticed the other project I've been working on...
Image
ImageImage
Consider this a sneak-peak because I like you guys so much :D The one in this picture is the first prototype and has taken a bit of a beating with trial & error, but I think you'll get the idea... Our beloved Oldfast has the second rendition (which is much prettier) and is helping me out with some user-testing. It's fully adjustable in height and reach, so it will fit the vast majority of dials, magnetic with nice soft feet for easy attachment no scratching, and very precise. This one is Walnut with a hand-rubbed tung oil finish, bright brass and black hardware... I'll also be offering in some other wood options (curly maple, anyone?) and a light version with black numbers/pins, and optionally antiqued brass if you're not keen on the shiny. There will be a Kickstarter project soon, and I hope you'll all want one enough to support me. It's still got one or two more small revisions to go, but I'm hoping to launch around 6/1 if possible (my laser guy is closed for the shelter-in-place order, and I can't do the next run without him, so...)

Anyhow, more details forthcoming as this develops... let me know what you think.
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AL usher69

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Post Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:18 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

that's a excellent tool and can't wait for it to go on sale
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femurat

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:35 am

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

That's a wonderful tool. Thank you for sharing your project with us.

Good luck with your kickstarter :)

PS I also like how the grain runs across multiple wooden boards.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:00 am

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

Very nice! I don't have many escutcheons for my key locks.

Regarding your key locks: I would like to point out, that the La Gard locks are not "Group 2", but "Type 2".

https://www.dormakaba.com/us-en/solutio ... 270-292896
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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L4R3L2

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:17 am

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

Looking good!
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madsamurai

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:09 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

MartinHewitt wrote:Very nice! I don't have many escutcheons for my key locks.
Regarding your key locks: I would like to point out, that the La Gard locks are not "Group 2", but "Type 2".
https://www.dormakaba.com/us-en/solutio ... 270-292896

Thanks, MH... I found conflicting ratings for those locks in different places... alas, I didn't see the DormaKaba page there, but there are at least a few mentions and listings that show it as Group 2 (probably erroneously, or maybe it's changed over time), eg. LaGard 2200 - LockWiki. I assumed it got the Group 2 rating because it's effectively a key-turned 4-Wheel combination lock on the inside, rather than lever-based like most of the Type 2/UL 437 locks. I saw it somewhere shown with both Group 2 AND Type 2, but can't find it now. So I just took a quasi-educated guess, and figured I'd re-do them later with the next batch if I picked wrong.

I had a heck of a time with S&G escutcheons... they make some nice locks, but their accessories (and dials) are pretty ugly imho... The one here for the 6870 looks really nice from a distance, but is horribly cast and has very rough edges, and the recess in the back doesn't fit around the key guide tube without modification. It was listed as Sargent & Greenleaf, but the logo stamped on the front is 'Diplomat,' and is printed 90 degrees off as if the keyway should be vertical. It took a lot of work to get that lock mounted nicely with the tube.
The one on the 6804 was sort of painted or coated on the front with a sort of blue-gray color and "S&G" around the edges, but the coating was uneven and had a permanent finger print and the text was smeared, so I sanded and polished it and it turned out much nicer.
LaGard escutcheons and dials are much cleaner and better made.... machined instead of cast, and much cleaner indicator lines and numbers. I don't know why S&G is so sloppy with their visible parts... it makes them look cheap.

Thank you, AL usher69, femurat, and L4R3L2 for the compliments :) I'm pretty excited about that project, and hoping it can be the catalyst to get a new small business going... we'll see if it pans out.

- Chad
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madsamurai

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:22 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

Ah, I found the picture of the 2nd prototype I thought I had lost (it was hiding in the wrong folder). This is the one I sent to Oldfast.

Image
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:35 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

I looked for information on the Type/Group thing on the labels of my 2270 and 3909, but there is only a UL logo with four letters/numbers and no category or standard. I never found out what these letters/numbers are good for and I never found any information on certified lock on the UL website.

Good Idea with the scale. This is for a 100 number dial without an empty area? Maybe you should engrave that information too, just in case you make one for a different kind of dial.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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madsamurai

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:07 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

MartinHewitt wrote:I looked for information on the Type/Group thing on the labels of my 2270 and 3909, but there is only a UL logo with four letters/numbers and no category or standard. I never found out what these letters/numbers are good for and I never found any information on certified lock on the UL website.

Same here, the 2270 has a sticker that says "UL Listed High Security Key Lock, 28 L5". My 2240 is old and has no markings besides the embossed model series and patents. In fact, I'm not even completely positive the model number is correct on the 2240... it is only different from the other one in that it has no center pin in the keyway, and I haven't found a definitive reference to prove it out.

MartinHewitt wrote:This is for a 100 number dial without an empty area? Maybe you should engrave that information too, just in case you make one for a different kind of dial.

Yes, this one fits the more common current-production 100 number dials, and is sized to fit right up against the edge of the dial ring for rings that are 3 5/8" diameter. It will also work with smaller dials/rings, I just need to make sure the reach is long enough to cover as many as possible... that's part of what Oldfast is helping me with, as he has a much bigger collection to work with than I do, and dial ring outer diameter isn't something most companies seem to list with their specifications. Good point about dials with the empty area, that had slipped my mind and would certainly require a design variation... great idea to specify that on the tool.
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jimylongs

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:59 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

I've printed out vernier scales for the outside, what also helped was printing finer lines for the inside of the dial where you read at. The lines on the dial itself are freaking huge.
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madsamurai

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:48 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

jimylongs wrote:I've printed out vernier scales for the outside, what also helped was printing finer lines for the inside of the dial where you read at. The lines on the dial itself are freaking huge.

Yep, you can print or buy printed scales. The big advantage to this one is that the needles overlap the lines on the dial, and the one that is aligned will create a nice consistent solid line that your eye naturally picks up on, even with thick dial markings like S&G. The adjustability allows you to overlap as much or little as works best for you, and get them very close to the dial to avoid parallax. I personally find it's much quicker to read and more precise than using paper/stickers. Plus it's much quicker to attach and set up than printing and trimming and trying to tape securely and straight. And if you're a professional, I think it would make a much classier impression on the client than stickers or taped-on print-outs.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:46 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

The largest dial ring I have has a diameter of 106mm. The thickest dial ring is 35mm (distance from door wall to where the marks on the dial are). The first is an old Kromer dial, the second are NL-Locks electronic/mechanic combination locks. The empty space on my dials with empty space ranges from 20 to 25 numbers.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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jeffmoss26

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:39 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

drooool :)
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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madsamurai

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Post Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

MartinHewitt wrote:The largest dial ring I have has a diameter of 106mm. The thickest dial ring is 35mm (distance from door wall to where the marks on the dial are). The first is an old Kromer dial, the second are NL-Locks electronic/mechanic combination locks. The empty space on my dials with empty space ranges from 20 to 25 numbers.

Thank you, that's very helpful information. I think what's going to happen is if the kickstarter is successful with this current design (or maybe even if it's not), I'll build a range of variants to address the less common dials... that would include large diameter, dials with more or less than 100 increments or with gaps. I'm thinking those can be designed and offered as requested; I can turn a new design around from start to finish in a few days. I'm also working out a design that will work better with spyproof dials - this one can work with them, but isn't ideal and I think I can do something better.
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:13 pm

Re: Madsamurai's Locks and Projects

There are spy proof Kromer dials with a loupe window. They are uncommon even here and probably non-existing where you are, but hey exist.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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