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Contests? Who really freaking cares?

Should KeyPicking cease putting on lockpicking competitions alltogether?

Yes
5
20%
No
20
80%
 
Total votes : 25
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HallisChalmers

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:28 pm

Contests? Who really freaking cares?

The turn out for the dimple lock picking contest was PATHETIC. :puke:

For all the sniveling I heard from people wanting to know when the next contest was going to be, the turnout was a joke.

At this point, I'm ready to shitcan the whole concept of lockpicking competitions, if this is the turnout we can expect in the future.

Cast your vote and I'll consider my options.
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Xrax

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:33 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

I'd hate to see the contests go, I working my way up to advanced picking because of this site and I am really looking forward to posting in some upcoming contests, I guess its up to the vets for now :???:
"Schlösser und Schlüssel sind nicht für ehrlich Fingern gemacht." - "Locks and keys are not made for honest fingers." -German proverb
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

hell no dont stop... i love contests and hate i ddnt get to enter the last one...
and besides, u cant stop till i win one ;)
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Tarquin

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

I happen to LOVE the idea of contests.

I haven't been here six months.
I'm not an admin.
I'm not a moderator.
I don't have 60 posts yet.
I haven't contributed monetarily yet.
I don't even own a dimple lock.
I probably couldn't pick it if I did.
I don't own a video camera, and don't know how to post videos even if I did.

I love the idea of contests, but I'm a long way from being able to compete. I do hope they're here when I get there though.
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xeo

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:47 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

Tarquin wrote:I happen to LOVE the idea of contests.
I don't have 60 posts yet.



You have 59.
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Tarquin

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:52 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

xe0 wrote:
Tarquin wrote:I happen to LOVE the idea of contests.
I don't have 60 posts yet.



You have 59.

Shit-posting my way to 60.

Ah... That felt GREAT!
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HallisChalmers

Lord Emeritus of Keypicking HallisChalmers

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

Tarquin wrote:I happen to LOVE the idea of contests.

I haven't been here six months.
I'm not an admin.
I'm not a moderator.
I don't have 60 posts yet.
I haven't contributed monetarily yet.
I don't even own a dimple lock.
I probably couldn't pick it if I did.
I don't own a video camera, and don't know how to post videos even if I did.

I love the idea of contests, but I'm a long way from being able to compete. I do hope they're here when I get there though.


Well the 60 post requirement is to make sure we have people that actually participate in the forum entering the contests. I don't want guys just parachuting in for the contests (from other sites) - snatching the prize, and then flying away.

Besides, 60 posts is not an insurmountable obstacle. It can be easily achieved.
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Tarquin

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

HallisChalmers wrote:Well the 60 post requirement is to make sure we have people that actually participate in the forum entering the contests. I don't want guys just parachuting in for the contests (from other sites) - snatching the prize, and then flying away.

Besides, 60 posts is not an insurmountable obstacle. It can be easily achieved.


Understood. I was just trying to intimate (playfully) that I want to compete in contests but that I lack the skill and tools to do so currently. I do hope they're still here when that's no longer the case though.

Just out of a sense of irony, I noticed that the prize for picking a dimple lock was... A dimple pick set. Just sayin'.
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KokomoLock

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:32 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

I say do not stop the competitions. I was looking through the pin tumbler competition from years back and there were a lot of entries. Why, because everyone has pin tumbler locks and can pick pin tumbler locks and they are cheap. Next up, the Medeco Competition had 4 entries. Medeco are expensive, and a lot harder to pick than a standard pin tumbler lock, not as many people picking them. Next dimple locks, the better ones are even harder than Medeco in my opinion, and even less people picking the good dimple locks than Medeco. Most of the dimple locks I see are padlocks and Euro profile cylinders, harder to gut to show the pins and a hell of a lot harder to put back together. Just a few of my thoughts. Now for the rules I have problems with and why. Not that the rules are bad just they could be more accommodating I guess.

1. Have to show the key. Why, I have a ton of locks with no key, they are cheaper and more fun to pick blind. When the lock is gutted you are gonna see the bitting so maybe that could be changed?

2. Must be horizontal. I understand you want it to be like picking a lock mounted on a door. It makes it a lot more difficult and this is locksport not locksmith, most people will never have to pick one horizontal. Made the dimple lock much harder to pick I think.

3. Only 1 tension wrench. Maybe this is just me but you can use multiple picks but not wrenches? It takes me 2 to pick the DOM IX 10 KG, 2 tension bars is not cheating, it is just the way some have to be picked, especially with dimple locks with multiple rows of pins.

OK, I am done. What do you think?
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LocksmithArmy

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

adding to kokomos post... I have this awsome cam lock with an unknown bitting and number of pins... Also no key... I woulda entered it but no key... And if I couldn't pick it (havnt bee able too yet) I had an interactive I'd have done... With again no key

I agree with the horizontal rule... Cause it's easy enough to "mount" one and it makes the difference between contest picking and any other vid...

none of this changes the fact that the contests shouldn't be stopped...

you can always grade hs locks higher than low sec... I like knowing the grading system aswell that was nice...
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HallisChalmers

Lord Emeritus of Keypicking HallisChalmers

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Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

KokomoLock wrote:I say do not stop the competitions. I was looking through the pin tumbler competition from years back and there were a lot of entries. Why, because everyone has pin tumbler locks and can pick pin tumbler locks and they are cheap. Next up, the Medeco Competition had 4 entries. Medeco are expensive, and a lot harder to pick than a standard pin tumbler lock, not as many people picking them. Next dimple locks, the better ones are even harder than Medeco in my opinion, and even less people picking the good dimple locks than Medeco. Most of the dimple locks I see are padlocks and Euro profile cylinders, harder to gut to show the pins and a hell of a lot harder to put back together. Just a few of my thoughts. Now for the rules I have problems with and why. Not that the rules are bad just they could be more accommodating I guess.

1. Have to show the key. Why, I have a ton of locks with no key, they are cheaper and more fun to pick blind. When the lock is gutted you are gonna see the bitting so maybe that could be changed?

2. Must be horizontal. I understand you want it to be like picking a lock mounted on a door. It makes it a lot more difficult and this is locksport not locksmith, most people will never have to pick one horizontal. Made the dimple lock much harder to pick I think.

3. Only 1 tension wrench. Maybe this is just me but you can use multiple picks but not wrenches? It takes me 2 to pick the DOM IX 10 KG, 2 tension bars is not cheating, it is just the way some have to be picked, especially with dimple locks with multiple rows of pins.

OK, I am done. What do you think?


Well a balls-out, "run what you brung" competition is not a problem. To be honest, the dimple lock contest was done because we'd never done a dimple contest before and I thought the change would be welcome. Boy, was I fucking wrong. I'll never do a dimple lock contest again.

And to answer your questions:

1. Well, you show the key to show the bitting. What's to keep someone from gaming the system by pinning the lock with easy bitting - and then claiming he doesn't have a key and ...well gosh, look at this hard lock I just picked. Without showing the bitting on the key - how do you keep people honest? Take them at their word? :roll: Sorry, but I was crushed when I found out Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny weren't real...and I can't stand the thought of someone lying to me again. I'd be traumatized for life.

2. :twisted: That's the idea - make it hard. But I see your point - not everybody is a locksmith. But still, I think static picking has its merits. We could alternate those requirements.

3. Personally, that's just something throw in to help new guys. Not everybody has 8 picksets to choose from. But, I'm not a stickler for that rule - so I don't care if it goes.
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KokomoLock

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Post Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

HallisChalmers wrote:
KokomoLock wrote:I say do not stop the competitions. I was looking through the pin tumbler competition from years back and there were a lot of entries. Why, because everyone has pin tumbler locks and can pick pin tumbler locks and they are cheap. Next up, the Medeco Competition had 4 entries. Medeco are expensive, and a lot harder to pick than a standard pin tumbler lock, not as many people picking them. Next dimple locks, the better ones are even harder than Medeco in my opinion, and even less people picking the good dimple locks than Medeco. Most of the dimple locks I see are padlocks and Euro profile cylinders, harder to gut to show the pins and a hell of a lot harder to put back together. Just a few of my thoughts. Now for the rules I have problems with and why. Not that the rules are bad just they could be more accommodating I guess.

1. Have to show the key. Why, I have a ton of locks with no key, they are cheaper and more fun to pick blind. When the lock is gutted you are gonna see the bitting so maybe that could be changed?

2. Must be horizontal. I understand you want it to be like picking a lock mounted on a door. It makes it a lot more difficult and this is locksport not locksmith, most people will never have to pick one horizontal. Made the dimple lock much harder to pick I think.

3. Only 1 tension wrench. Maybe this is just me but you can use multiple picks but not wrenches? It takes me 2 to pick the DOM IX 10 KG, 2 tension bars is not cheating, it is just the way some have to be picked, especially with dimple locks with multiple rows of pins.

OK, I am done. What do you think?


Well a balls-out, "run what you brung" competition is not a problem. To be honest, the dimple lock contest was done because we'd never done a dimple contest before and I thought the change would be welcome. Boy, was I fucking wrong. I'll never do a dimple lock contest again.

And to answer your questions:

1. Well, you show the key to show the bitting. What's to keep someone from gaming the system by pinning the lock with easy bitting - and then claiming he doesn't have a key and ...well gosh, look at this hard lock I just picked. Without showing the bitting on the key - how do you keep people honest? Take them at their word? :roll: Sorry, but I was crushed when I found out Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny weren't real...and I can't stand the thought of someone lying to me again. I'd be traumatized for life.

2. :twisted: That's the idea - make it hard. But I see your point - not everybody is a locksmith. But still, I think static picking has its merits. We could alternate those requirements.

3. Personally, that's just something throw in to help new guys. Not everybody has 8 picksets to choose from. But, I'm not a stickler for that rule - so I don't care if it goes.


1. Gutting the lock is a must. When you gut the lock and show the pins, the pins show the key bitting. If all the pins are long easy if all the pins are short easy if long short long short long its hard. You don't have to have a key to tell that! And what is this shit about Santa and the Easter Bunny not being real?

2. I agree with static picking, just not horizontal static picking.

3. OK
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Farmerfreak

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Post Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:26 am

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

HallisChalmers wrote:Well a balls-out, "run what you brung" competition is not a problem. To be honest, the dimple lock contest was done because we'd never done a dimple contest before and I thought the change would be welcome. Boy, was I fucking wrong. I'll never do a dimple lock contest again.
I liked the idea for the dimple lock competition. But to be honest, at first I wasn't planning on entering the competition as I didn't have a dimple lock I could reasonably enter with. And I'll bet a lot of people were in the same boat. It's still a cool idea, but I wouldn't plan on people buying locks specifically for a competition, and that's where the biggest problem with dimple locks seems to be.

An idea for a future competition (I know, where was this suggestion when you were asking a long time ago. Sorry), would be something like American padlocks (no franken pins, just normal serrated/spooled American pins). Why? Because just about every picker has one.

HallisChalmers wrote:1. Well, you show the key to show the bitting. What's to keep someone from gaming the system by pinning the lock with easy bitting - and then claiming he doesn't have a key and ...well gosh, look at this hard lock I just picked. Without showing the bitting on the key - how do you keep people honest? Take them at their word? :roll: Sorry, but I was crushed when I found out Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny weren't real...and I can't stand the thought of someone lying to me again. I'd be traumatized for life.
Showing the key is nice, if you have the key... But in all fairness, with some experience it isn't too difficult to read what the key bitting is from just the pins. If someone doesn't have a key, on most locks (I guess not dimple locks though), once the cylinder is taken apart but before the pins are taking out it isn't too much to ask that someone puts their pick in the lock upside down (flat part to the pins) and lifts them up all the way. It'll be easy to tell what the bitting is like at that point.


Another thing I would consider would be to run the advanced/beginner competitions together. And not necessarily label them advanced/beginner. Instead you would label it "Best overall" and "Best beginner," or something to that effect. I would probably make the prizes comparable or even though it may seem counter-intuitive, give the bigger prize to the best beginner. Since I would imagine that most of the advanced pickers already have cool stuff, that's how they became advanced in the first place... And figuring out who is and who isn't a beginner should be left solely in the judges hands. It's an online competition and will always be subjective anyways.

Some other things to keep in mind. I'll bet that most of the beginner pickers would like to see all the advanced pickers compete, just because it's always cool to see the best of the best go at it. But from the other end of things, speaking for myself of course. As an advanced picker I don't really have much competitive motivation against the other advanced pickers. Plain and simply there is just too much respect I have for them. And the other advanced pickers may see this the same way. That's nothing more than a mindset issue though, if we were doing it for the beginners, then that shouldn't be an issue.

Overall, the main issue is that if you want a lot of people to participate. You'll have to pick a lock that just about everybody has. I'm still a bit surprised that there weren't more dimple lock entries. But what's done is done.

That's my 2 cents.
-FarmerFreak
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s1deshowmick

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Post Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:29 am

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

Maybe we could have a nominated amount of contestants per competition?
if the numbers are there, well then the contest is run, this would make it worth its while.

I like the rules as they are. keep showing the key, it takes all the mystery out it, and the people that are doing the right thing don't get ragged from the people who just can't believe they can do it.. We all have vids up on YT that get alot of attention for this reason. Picking blind is one of my favorite things to do, i think it shows the pickers real skill level,
but for the purpose of the comps, i would like to keep that rule.

Hallis is a pretty fair Sword wielding head hunter.
If there are rules in a particular contest you don't agree with and you can make a good case, Well, maybe they can be changed.

I personally, would much rather have members of this site come forward and discuss possible changes to competition rules, or any other part of this great site, before it comes a problem rather than just black-ban it, and not not say anything.

We can't help if "we don't know what we don't know"

OK, I'm getting back in my box now.......
If you can't be good, Be good at it.

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sandman

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Post Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:38 am

Re: Contests? Who really freaking cares?

Ive been a locksmith for a whole 3 months now, and i have yet to hold a dimple lock in my hands, let alone, pick one.
and my fiance wont let me have a youtube channel cause she caught me looking at girls shaking their booties! so no more videos for me! : (

i think it was just a really advanced contest sir, thats all. it was nice for a change of pace for others but 98% of the people on here could never have competed in the first place. thats all. much respect sir.

sandman
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