FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3415

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:35 am

Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Breakdown of a Fichet 787

Won two of these from the same lockset (inner and outer) on eBay a while back. The inner lock worked great, but the outer one (this one) did not work. Finally had some time today at work to disassemble it to find out why it did not work.

Image

Image

First, had to drill out the two hardened steel pins they used on the outer lock housing so we (you and I) could take a look inside. Since they were hardened steel pins, they laughed at my drill bits. :evil: Out came the diamond dremel bits. Who is your daddy, now? :twisted:

Image

Now you can push the lock cylinder out of the housing:

Image

:-( No, you can't. The lock is key retaining, and the key bow will not fit through the keyhole in the housing. :oops:

Remove the key, then use a thin screwdriver or straight tool to push the lock cylinder out.

First to come out is the actuator, or at least one of the parts of it.

Image

The lock core removed:

Image

Inside the housing. Note that there is a large groove and a small groove going the length of the housing. Don’t try to put the lock together backwards. :-) Inside the housing you can see grooves that go all the way around the housing. Tabs on the side of the lock core lock into these grooves to prevent punching the lock and prevent the lock core from moving in until the tabs are retracted or properly aligned.

Image

One side (with a large link). You can see the gears for half of the levers. The copper colored tabs at the top are part of the spring assembly. While connected at the top, the individual fingers provide springs for the levers. Five tabs, but each end tab only contacts one lever. There is a matching spring assembly on the other side.

Image

The other side (with a small link). Just above the link is a spring loaded tab that helps orient the core.

Image

To disassemble the part that links onto the main lock core, slide towards the small link end until it clears the lock core.

Image

Tip it outwards…

Image

Then slide it downwards.

Image

It is now separated.

Image

Am losing the game of trying to figure out names for these parts, so here is one view of the big brass part that we just removed and the part that the gates of the levers need to line up with for the core to move backwards. The ‘legs’ fit down into the other brass part, which faces away from the gates. More on the gates soon.

Image

Another view of the two above parts. The springs fit into the holes on the brass part and into notches in the other metal part that appears to be pot metal. The pot metal part is furthest from the key.

Image

Partly assembled, you can see the part with the legs underneath the other brass part.

Image

The other side of the pot metal part. At the top and bottom are the notches the springs fit into.

Image

A better angle to see what the part looks like. It appears to be entirely cast.

Image

Image

Image

Image

This is that assembly in the ‘locked’ position. To the right would be the rest of the lock core components and key, to the left would be the locking bolt mechanism.

Image

When ‘unlocked’ (correct key inserted), the core can be pressed inwards towards the locking bolt mechanism (compressing the springs). You can see the part that engages the bolt on the left now that the springs are compressed and the lock core moved inwards.

Image

These are the shutters, which keep debris out of the lock and fit into grooves across the key.

Image

The key partly inserted. Note how the edges of the shutter are pushed outwards. They fit into one of the grooves in the lock housing, preventing the lock cylinder from moving inwards.

Image

The key fully inserted. Parts of the shutters are now able to move inwards around the key. The outer part of the shutter now is out of the groove. This lock needs to be able to move inwards before it can be turned.

Image

This is the part of the lock core that links to the above parts. You can see four gates, only the bottom one is lined up correctly. Without the key, the springs move the levers that you saw above, which are geared to these parts, causing the levers to self scramble.

Image

I put the key into a vice, facing up. Then I slid the lock onto it fully. The gates should all line up. There is obvious wear on the key and parts, as the gates are not ‘perfectly’ aligned. But they would work if it were not for the third gear from the top. You can see that it is way out of alignment. Two gear teeth out, to be more accurate.

Image

Image

The key inserted, you can see the levers moved in various positions based on the key bits. Also, you can see that the shutter would clear the grooves in the lock housing.

Image

Here the key is partly removed so you can see the difference in the levers above (you can now see many teeth on each of the four levers on this side. Also, the shutter is pushed out, into the groove if the core was in the lock body. That smooth (looking) band is the shutter spring. If the focus was better, you would see that it is not smooth at all.

Image

At the top of this shot are the shutters. The shiny part that looks like a ball bearing at the bottom is actually the pivot pin for the lower gears. The two shiny pins near the top center are the pivot pins for the four levers on each side of the keyway.

Image

In the slot here, you can see the gear teeth. There is a part assembly that fits into here to line up the gear teeth better.

Image

And here is that assembly. The larger outer part , the spring, and a omega-shaped part at the bottom that links with the top part.

Image

At the top of the above part is this narrow bar that fits into the gear teeth.

Image

Use a punch to drive out the large pivot pin (with the key installed). This can easily be pushed out - no need for hammers.

Image

Since the punch is of narrower than the pivot pin, hope to be able to adjust the out-of-position gear by sliding it upwards, unmeshing the gear teeth and rotating it.

Image

Unfortunately, the lock decided to dash my hopes. :cry: Used a music wire tool (specifically, a tension wrench made for a Vachette AXI Home lock) to push out the punch, giving a bit more free room to adjust the gears. Don’t want to take this lock completely apart at work if it can be helped. Parts would get lost, never to be found again.

Image

Without the fatter pivot pin (or punch) in place, the gears move freely (almost).

Image

Use another music wire tool (tubular lock poker pick :mrgreen: ) to align the gates.

Image

Hey! Alright, we are on our way! Also note that the gear ‘tooth’ on each side of the gate is larger and wider. That could come in handy picking!

Image

Put in the part that is supposed to fit into the gates in place (without the rest of the stuff) to help hold the gates in place. Then put in that assembly in place into the slot to lock the gear teeth in place.

Image

Tried putting in the pivot pin directly, but the gears are not aligned enough. So put the punch in place.

Image

Put in the pivot pin.

Image

Reassemble in reverse of the above steps. Here the key is partly in. The lock core can not move inwards.

Image

Key pushed in, the core pushed inwards. The bolt mechanism would now be engaged…

Image

And turned! This lock is now fixed!

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

huxleypig

User avatar

The Prestigious and Powerful Porcine Prelate

Posts: 886

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:59 am

Location: West Mids, UK

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:39 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Beautiful work Gordon! That is a 787z I believe. With the yin/yang keyway.

I have yet to see any 787 where the gates line up 100% perfect but I have only seen maybe 5 or 6.

But I still don't get how you fixed it? :???:

Was it the gears catching on the pivot pin?
<<

ARF-GEF

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 451

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:03 pm

Location: Eastern Europe

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:43 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Yeah I think it's 787z as well.
That is amazing work.
All those tiny bits, a very cool lock and an equally cool project :)
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3415

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:59 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Can't really tell by the yin-yang key. There are only 8 levers, so that should be a 787s. The 787z is supposed to be a 10 lever lock.

The fix was resetting that one gear so the gate lined up where it should be.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

ARF-GEF

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 451

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:03 pm

Location: Eastern Europe

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Ah then it's MrAnybody's turf. He is the in-house french lock expert :)
To infinity... and beyond!
=== WARNING DANGER OF TYPOS!===
Arfspeak: calnin cladycomes: you allow her key in themodning
Equals in plain English: cleaning lady comes: you allow her key in the morning
<<

fgarci03

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 439

Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:51 pm

Location: Porto/Portugal

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:17 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

GWiens2001 wrote:Can't really tell by the yin-yang key. There are only 8 levers, so that should be a 787s. The 787z is supposed to be a 10 lever lock.

The fix was resetting that one gear so the gate lined up where it should be.

Gordon


Gordon, nice work on that!
It is a 787z. I talked to MrA, he told me that the 10 levers where for for a few locks, all the other z's have 8 levers. He will exlain you better, but you should know it's a z :D
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
<<

10ringo10

User avatar

Prolific Poster

Posts: 1112

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 5:45 pm

Location: EUROPE

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:30 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Hey Gordon ! lol what metal or alloy is it cast from .....ah ah ah ! great job man
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3415

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:32 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Excellent! Thank you for the updated info. Was going by Graham Pullford's book, but things do change. :-D

And my thanks to MrAnybody for indirectly answering the question.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

MrAnybody

User avatar

The Muffin Man
The Muffin Man

Posts: 482

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:39 pm

Location: UK / France

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Really cool job, Gordon. Really happy you brought this puppy back to life.

Yes, as the guys have mentioned this is a 787z despite having the 2 packs of 4 levers.

I'd also read (and mentioned several times publicly) that the 'z' had 2 packs of 5 levers, but I questioned a French locksmith recently on this point and it turns out to be wrong. Fichet first made the 'z' with 2 packs of 5 levers, but it proved so problematic that they either withdrew it very quickly, or it never actually got out of the R&D stage. FIchet submitted all the patents etc for the 2 x 5 lever, but there was some issue that gave them a bitch in production or it was unreliable in use. He was very confident on this point as he's dealt with a lot of these locks.

The distinguishing marks to ID a 787s from a 787z are:
The 787z has the 'S' shaped keyway while the 787s has a straight slit keyway
The 787z has a 'S' curve in the key blade to correspond with the above
The 787z key also has a teardrop type cutout at the top of the key blade to allow the 'S' gates to close around it when the key is inserted. The 787s has a cutout that is a shallow 'V' shape.

You can see these features on the 787z below. I hope I'm OK to use your pics Gordon, but it's quicker than loading mine.

Image

The other distinguishing feature for the 787z is the locking bar seen here:

Image

In the 787z this is spring loaded while in the 787s it is not. Without all the gears aligning correctly this locking bar will not drop into the cylinder and prevents the whole cylinder rotating. Really nice feature to have it spring loaded.

Many thanks for this gorgeous breakdown, Gordon. Always such a pleasure to see your really detailed work.

May I suggest that you host the pics here on KP rather than an outside host like photobucket? The thing is that there is no shortage of really informative and reference threads here on KP that now have no pics since the member has deleted them from the host or the host has died. By hosting them on KP we all have a permanent reference. See here for how-to: https://ssl.keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6755
__________________________

MrAnybody's Locks

DISCLAIMER: Reader may posit an understanding of what was written, while this may not coincide with the intended meaning of what is read. Use of brain is required. No purchase necessary. One size fits all, and may contain traces of gibberish.
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3415

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:31 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

MrAnybody and all others - feel free to use my pictures for writeups. :mrgreen:

Will try uploading some pictures to the server here soon. It is a case of being a little set in my ways. :oops:

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

cocolitos

Familiar Face

Posts: 25

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 10:14 am

Location: france

Post Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Quick animation to show how it works !! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSLptJJbkqo

Have fun.

Cocolitos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCocolitos?feature=mhee
<<

Deadlock

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 366

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:37 pm

Location: England

Post Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:17 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Too quick! A very clear animation, it's just too short! I'd like to see that played over and over in slow motion a few times.

Boy, that's one complicated lock!
<<

madsamurai

User avatar

Familiar Face

Posts: 179

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Cocolitos, that really helped me understand what this lock was all about, thanks... and nicely done. I agree with Deadlock, loop that thing and I'd watch it for hours ;)

How in the heck would one go about trying to pick that thing?
<<

GWiens2001

User avatar

Lock-Goblin-Gordon
Lock-Goblin-Gordon

Posts: 3415

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:05 am

Location: Arizona, United States

Post Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

Great video!

Then, once the gates are lined up, the core is pushed down onto a 'sidebar' attached to the actuator. A real monster of complexity. Not really sure how you would pick it.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
<<

huxleypig

User avatar

The Prestigious and Powerful Porcine Prelate

Posts: 886

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:59 am

Location: West Mids, UK

Post Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: Fixing a Fichet 787 (Very Picture Heavy)

GWiens2001 wrote:Great video!

Then, once the gates are lined up, the core is pushed down onto a 'sidebar' attached to the actuator. A real monster of complexity. Not really sure how you would pick it.

Gordon


Not only do you have to think about manipulating the lever-things but you also have to overcome the anti-pick blocker AND the tear-drop shaped keyway entrance. Cool lock.
Next

Return to This Old (or unusual) Lock

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware