Trip to the railroad tracks

[GWiens2001]

Trip to the railroad tracks

This morning, took my son down the road a ways to let him see the switches and signals used by the railroad. Oh, yeah... the locks, too.

Was a little surprised by one of the locks, but that will come shortly.

Four locks were on one of the switches, every one different!



First, as expected, an S&G Environmental padlock.



Looks brand new.



Here was the surprise for me...



An American H10 dual sided wafer lock!





Another American. This one is a 5260 model



And the fourth is yet another American, this one is an A5200 model. Can anybody tell me what the difference between a 5200 and an A5200?



Did not photograph the keyways of the two newer American padlocks because they were both the usual keyway expected. Was hoping to see if they used a restricted keyway, but no such luck.

Anyway, my son was excited to see the locks, the switches, the signals, and the two trains that passed and looking closely at the parked train locomotive.

Gordon


P.S. No, did NOT even try to pick these locks!

[Riyame]

The signal department one SHOULD be a resticted keyway. It is close to the normal ones iirc but slightly different so that a normal blank wont fit.

[DR2]

Trip to the railroad tracks

This morning, took my son down the road a ways to let him see the switches and signals used by the railroad. Oh, yeah... the locks, too.

Was a little surprised by one of the locks, but that will come shortly.

Four locks were on one of the switches, every one different!

Just be careful my Friend. The government is none too fond of any close examination and photography of infrastructure now.

Here was the surprise for me...

An American H10 dual sided wafer lock!

They are still used in a lot of places. Tough old locks, too! I don't know if Adlake Beasts are still being used, but the 10/H10 double sided disc tumbler locks are still being used in certain places.

And the fourth is yet another American, this one is an A5200 model. Can anybody tell me what the difference between a 5200 and an A5200?

Gordon

Aluminum bodied? A = Aluminum? I really don't know and I have both types myself in the mass of locks.

[GWiens2001]

The A5200 looked to have the same lock body material as a normal 5200. Will check the American Padlock catalog and see if it says more.

Perhaps it is a restricted keyway if it is similar to the normal keyway.

Won't go back and photograph more, as you have a very valid point about federal concerns for infrastructure. Primarily went there because my son has been asking about trains and how they operate since he recently took his first train ride on the Durango and Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad. He was asking "how the trains turn from one track to another". Tried explaining the switches, but he couldn't quite get how it worked until I took him down to see a switch.

Gordon

[DR2]

Gordon,

Oh, I think what you did is completely harmless and if it is no longer legal, it should be. If we are still free...hmm...bad road to go down on that one.

Don

[Riyame]

DR2, the Adlakes (as well as the "locks" that use a special socket to open) are still in service albeit on things like electical connections and switches boxes, tool sheds etc. way out in the boonies, far from any roads. I saw a hell of a lot of new looking ones when I took a train trip last year.

[Oldfast]

Nice little outing

Surprising really to see and hear of so many H10's still utilized in important areas.
Although the H10 may hold up to weather nicely, they provide very little security.

[GWiens2001]

Nice little outing

Surprising really to see and hear of so many H10's still utilized in important areas.
Although the H10 may hold up to weather nicely, they provide very little security.

Couldn't the same be said of the Environmental locks? If you know the bittings for the lock, you can easily open them with a screwdriver.

Gordon

[Oldfast]

Nice little outing

Surprising really to see and hear of so many H10's still utilized in important areas.
Although the H10 may hold up to weather nicely, they provide very little security.

Couldn't the same be said of the Environmental locks? If you know the bittings for the lock, you can easily open them with a screwdriver.

Gordon

Absolutely. And really, I feel it should be a major concern. The railways are like viens running throughout the entire
U.S. For terrorists, I would say it's a perfect medium for opportunity... maybe more so than the airlines. I'm ignorant
as to the 'whole picture', but speaking strictly in terms of their locks - the railway could use a complete over-hauling.
(pun intended).

mister sour (a member here) took quite a liking to the Enviro's a while back. At one point he even had the
railroad police knocking on his door in regards to him illegally possessing keys. That's comforting I guess.
At least we know they're out in force doing their best to make an insecure system somewhat secure.

I can't even imagine how much money it would cost to re-amp the lock situation. It's quite possible that money is
better spent on more important security measures at this point? Police, surveillance, intel gathering, etc.
I dunno. But with chemical warfare and shit like that nowadays... it's scary to think about.

[GWiens2001]

Nice little outing

Surprising really to see and hear of so many H10's still utilized in important areas.
Although the H10 may hold up to weather nicely, they provide very little security.

Couldn't the same be said of the Environmental locks? If you know the bittings for the lock, you can easily open them with a screwdriver.

Gordon

Absolutely. And really, I feel it should be a major concern. The railways are like viens running throughout the entire
U.S. For terrorists, I would say it's a perfect medium for opportunity... maybe more so than the airlines. I'm ignorant
as to the 'whole picture', but speaking strictly in terms of their locks - the railway could use a complete over-hauling.
(pun intended).

mister sour (a member here) took quite a liking to the Enviro's a while back. At one point he even had the
railroad police knocking on his door in regards to him illegally possessing keys. That's comforting I guess.
At least we know they're out in force doing their best to make an insecure system somewhat secure.

I can't even imagine how much money it would cost to re-amp the lock situation. It's quite possible that money is
better spent on more important security measures at this point? Police, surveillance, intel gathering, etc.
I dunno. But with chemical warfare and shit like that nowadays... it's scary to think about.

Chemical warfare can be done by derailing or crashing trains in populated areas. Won't go into what was in some of the tank cars on the trains we saw yesterday, but even my son stated that he would not want to be around if they broke open. I would agree that the lock system needs updating. That said, the enviros will take quite a beating without opening for those without our skills.

Gordon

[ARF-GEF]

The American H10 dual sided wafer lock looks pretty cool. I am fairly excited by the dual keyway, it's just like the lock I got from FG some time ago.

As for photographing, I don't see how that would be too valuable to the bad guys, they too can go and see it at any rail line, but when it comes to law and crossing the path of these three lettered stuff better safe than sorry.
They probably wouldn't bother picking the locks, since the advent of portable angle grinders no padlock is really safe. Even a huge investment into high end padlock would not provide much more defence against a good angle grinder, but it would be a burden to the already overstretched US budget. (And in my opinion the American society already invests more than healthy into arms and "security".)
But I think they already put in an immense amount of work into surveillance and security, I don't really think that changing all the locks would provide a significant national security boost. Apparently nor does the government otherwise they would have done something. I'm sure there has been a lot of pondering about stuff like this by very qualified people.
(Also proven by the fact that they visited mr sour here. It seems they do take these thing seriously (probably not entirely without basis) ).
Albeit I am particularly dubious that the evil guys can get chemical weapons, explosives are already pretty restricted and tightly controlled, imagine chemical weapons... It's not like they just walk in to the terrorist walmart and ask buy some. I can imgine that they can cause a train to wreck but how big damage that can do, I'm not sure. Mostly these dangerous shit are not transported in too densely populated areas, their route and schedule is probably not shared with anyone, plus here most dangerous stuff usually has guards and or police support.
Plus with all the surveillance it seems the police catches the terrorists far in the planning phase.

Plus if you consider train-spotting is such a huge hobby, and kids everywhere love trains (I sure did) so I don't think it's too much of an issue.
Anyway I still think better safe than sorry

Back to locks: thansk for sharing Gordon, the enrios are cool as always

[DR2]

Nice little outing

Surprising really to see and hear of so many H10's still utilized in important areas.
Although the H10 may hold up to weather nicely, they provide very little security.

I have run into quite a few of these over the years and for some bizarre reason, I collect Chicago and Junkunc/American Double-Sided Disc Tumbler Padlocks. I love these damned things!

Some of them can be amazingly testy and difficult to pick. The set of four dedicated Rocker Picks for them do very, very well on the vast majority of them but you will, once in a while, get a bitting that is difficult that those Rockers won't immediately open or open with a little coaxing and then they will give you a fit picking them in a more conventional manner, too. Combine that with poor maintenance, extremes in weather and fine dirt and dust being a major part of the area and you can have something that will give you a fit. The idea that some lunatic from the Middle East is going to easily pick one of these things, errah...I dunno. I don't think everything is as easy for other people as it is for people like us when it comes to this stuff.

[PhoneMan]

Around here our main railroad (BNSF) uses 05 enviros on active switches and WB padlocks on unused or seldom used switches. The locks that take a 1/2" (I think) nutdriver to open are still used on battery backup boxes for the crossing signals. Oh, and they use Abloy locks on the enclosures for the crossing lights! Wanna say 320 series. My Flickr page has pics of one.
I've only ver gotten yelled at by the "bulls" when I've been around the yards, but for the most part, if you don't look suspicious, they'll leave you alone.

[MBI]

From what I've gathered when speaking to Transit Police, Railroad Police, DHS guys and the TSA, in most circumstances it's not illegal to take pics of infrastructure like railroads, although there's always the chance that you might have a poorly trained security guard or overzealous and inexperienced officer try to tell you it's illegal. Also, despite what some people might tell you, Railroad Police Special Agents do have police authority beyond railroad property. In most states, they have full police authority throughout any state in which their railroad owns property.

They are trained to keep an eye out for people who are taking particular notice and/or photographs of railroad infrastructure. There has been legit intel over the past decade or so, showing Al Qaeda and some domestic terrorist groups have been surveilling the various parts of our transit system as potential targets.

Standing back and taking a picture of a train will probably not raise any red flags. However, due to the fact that there is a potential threat to our national infrastructure, if you're taking detailed pictures or observations of the nitty gritty mechanics of how the rail system runs, taking closeup shots of the power transmission lines, junctions, switch boxes, locks, train wheels and undercarriages, etc you will usually get stopped briefly and questioned while they check your ID (if they're in the area and see you do it).

Some people argue that you do not have to give your name to police if you are stopped. If you are stopped and you are uncertain if you are legally required to comply, simply ask them if you are being detained or if you are free to go. If they say you are being detained and if they have a reasonable suspicion to stop you, in most states you are legally required to give them your (real) name and DOB for identification purposes. They'll most likely call it in and verify if the name you give is a real person and matches your physical description. Giving false information in such a circumstance is a misdemeanor in most states and can get you arrested.

As long as you aren't operating a motor vehicle, in most jurisdictions you generally aren't required to give them your actual ID card if all they're doing is questioning you about your activities. However giving them your ID will usually speed up the process and get you out of there quicker (assuming you don't have any outstanding warrants).

Be polite, keep your hands visible and out of your pockets during any such encounter. Assuming you're stopped by one of the majority of officers who are reasonable human beings, it shouldn't take too long to resolve their suspicions and send you on your way. However if you're obstinate, or you get one of the few who are badge-heavy jerks, it might take a little longer.

Here is a link from a law firm who has experience with cases like this, and they offer a free PDF giving you some legal advice on the subject. I haven't read it in a while, so if they give advice in that pdf which is contrary to what I've said here, I'd go with what they say as they're the legal experts.
Just right click the link and save as a pdf.
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

If you do a lot of photography, it might be a good idea to print out a copy and keep it in your camera bag.

[keymaster1053]

Perhaps the A on the american model indicates something minor like "key retaining" feature?