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Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

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Malekal

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

worked in a hotel a some point, but never seen these... :)
Malekal: I guess I'll try... I thought you had to go light
xeo: you do whatever the lock wants
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Robotnik

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:48 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

Malekal wrote:worked in a hotel a some point, but never seen these... :)


As I understand it, these saw a very narrow window of use starting in about the mid-70's. They were effectively rendered obsolete by the widespread adoption of keycard locks in the industry.
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Malekal

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:57 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

70s!! wow i worked in the 00's ! lol key card all the way :)
Malekal: I guess I'll try... I thought you had to go light
xeo: you do whatever the lock wants
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escher7

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:47 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

Here's a blurb from a guy at antique-locks.com advising against disassembly:

http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread ... rtise-Lock

P.S. Gordon mentioned in a previous post that the blank is an Ilco WF1, in case you want to try impressioning.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=7916
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oldbiscuit

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:27 pm

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

there's a auction on ebay right now for keys for this lock. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Unique-Vinta ... SwAKxWWw~o
"It never fails - as soon as I find the key to success, somebody changes the lock!"
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Papa Gleb

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Post Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:36 pm

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

Guys I have one of these but with no key. I see ilco sells blanks for the operating but I wanted to hear your take on making a key by hand. Im going to check out the patent now but still would like to hear your opinions.
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fogcreature

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Post Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:04 pm

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

escher7 wrote:Here's a blurb from a guy at antique-locks.com advising against disassembly:

http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread ... rtise-Lock

P.S. Gordon mentioned in a previous post that the blank is an Ilco WF1, in case you want to try impressioning.

http://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=7916


Understood. Im very mechanically inclined but id never get mine back together correctly. Its cool to look at and play with....still wish I had a maid key
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GWiens2001

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Post Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

If you want to try impressioning, you will have to cut one of the sides off the key. The key has two bitting depths. Cut, and uncut. And the two sides of the key are opposites.

Gordon
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pennme

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Post Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

Some info about Winfield hotel locks. I worked at a hotel in 1987 that had this system, and was responsible for working on it. My examples of this were using Mortise cylinders in a Mortise lockset. I know that there are cylindrical locksets, but while I do have one that I bought and have taken apart, I did not work as extensively with them.

This is a Bi-Centric cylinder. It was used before the mandate for all hotels to have magnetic keys.

There are 3 keys for these locks. Guest, Maid, Emergency. The Guest key fits the side that does not have “Maid” stamped on it. The Maid and Emergency keys work the “Maid” side.

The keys have 10 cuts, and only have two cuts. I don’t know what the factory calls them, but basically a 0 (Shallow) and a 1 (Deep) cut. If there is a 0 cut on one side, the other side will be a 1, and vice versa.

The keys are all steel, and I believe that they are punched.

The guest key has a 4 digit number stamped on it, and this relates to the cuts. I do not have any biting list.
The Maid key has a numbering sequence, but I am not sure what it is, as I don’t have a Maid key.
The Emergency key is labeled Ex, where x is a number. I have only seen them as a single digit, but certainly there can be more than 10 (0-9). I have an E3. On the other side there is a 3 digit number. My E3 has a 007 key. (Must have belonged to James Bond).

The cylinders are handed based on the handing of the door. The cam is geared, and the 2 plugs have gearing on them, so that whichever one is being used, is the one that will engage the cam. There is a flat spot on each of the cylinders, so that when it is turned back to remove the key, it will not engage. The cylinders will reversed based on the handing of the door. So, if the Maid keyway is on the right for a particular handing (not sure which one), the other handing will have the Maid on the left side.

The guest keys have a larger opening in the head of the key. There is a plastic push in, that can be removed, and placed in the key. These could either be a room number, or a blind code. Winfield made a press to put these in place, although, you can just push them in. To get them out, you can use any other key, and pry it out. This was done so that when they had to rekey, they could reuse the keys at a later date for a different room. We had a board with all of the keys arranged by the 4 digit code number on them.

Guest (Side not marked Maid). This is for the key that the guest has. It will only turn far enough to pull in the latch, not the deadbolt. There is a slot at the top of the keyway that allows the key to enter, and allow the retainer to fit in, and hold the key in place. There is a second slot that is offset at the 2 o’clock, or 10 o’clock position depending on the cylinder. The guest key will not turn back to this position in normal use. This second slot is ultimately used to rekey the cylinder.

The Maid side is used for the Main and Emergency keys. The Maid key works the same as the guest key, in that it will only retract the latch, and not the deadbolt, and the Maid key will only turn one direction, (the same as the guest key for a particular cylinder). The Emergency key will turn 360 degrees, which will allow it to retract a deadbolt and then continue to retract the latch.
While the Maid and Emergency keys also have 10 cuts, only 9 can be used for key combinations. The first cut (read Bow to Tip), determines if the key is a Maid key or an Emergency key. With the retainer of the key up, if the first cut is a 0, then it is a maid key, if it is a 1, then it is an Emergency key. The rest of the cuts will be the same for both the Maid and Emergency keys of a set. They come as a set, so that they work together.
The Emergency can be turned in either direction.

No on to rekeying.

To rekey the Emergency and Maid key combination. You would insert the Emergency key, and turn it to the second cut out, and remove the key. This puts this core in a neutral core. You then would put in the Emergency that you want the cylinder keyed to, and turn it back to the 12 O’clock position. The old Emergency and Maid will no longer work. The Emergency key that you keyed it to will work, as will the Maid key that came as a pair.
To rekey the Guest key. Insert the Emergency key, rotate it 180 degrees to the 6 O’clock position. Next, insert a current working guest key in the lock with the Emergency key still in the cylinder. Now turn both keys backwards (In reference to the Guest key), until the Guest key aligns with the cutout on the guest side at either 2 O’clock (or 10 O’clock, depending on the cylinder). Remove the Guest key. This will put the guest core in a neutral position. Insert a new working Guest key, and turn them back so that the guest key is back at the 12 O’clock position. Remove the Guest key. Rotate the Emergency key back to the 12 O’clock position, and remove.

The locks can be rekeyed an infinite number of times, and the Maid / Emergency side can be rekeyed independent of the Guest side.

I did find that on the Mortise cylinders, that the maid key, when the cylinder was out of the lock could turn far enough that it would allow you to insert the guest key, and rekey it. With it in the door, typically the latch mechanism would prevent it from turning far enough.

On the maid side, the cylinder is designed for cuts 2 – 10 to align correctly. The “Magic” is in cut 1. In the cylinder, there is a part of it milled out for the first cut, that allows the Maid key to only turn one direction, and only for a certain portion, preventing it from turning backwards. Since the Maid key has the 1st cut as a 0, the wafer sticks up, but the milling on the cylinder allows it to pass.

The plugs for each side on the face are not perfectly round. The Guest plug is milled so as to only allow it to turn in one direction. Turning it the other way will bind it against the face of the Maid plug. The Maid plug has a section milled on the other side, so that when the plug is turned 180 degrees, it will allow the Guest plug to turn back, and not be blocked. This restriction of movement is not due to any gearing, but milling of the plug faces. The plug faces, if not milled, would overlap each other.

I have tried to find a set of Maid / Emergency keys, but have not yet been successful.

Additionally, Winfield made an electronic lock that was used in hotels for a while. They were a plastic headed key that had what looks like a small circuit board sticking out of it with a small hole in it, with 4 contact on each side. The keys came in different color heads. I believe the Red headed key was the Emergency. Maid keys I believe were a different color from the guest keys.
It is virtually impossible to find out anything about Winfield hotel locks.

I will write more about how the mechanism inside the lock works so that it can be rekeyed, and will try to post some pictures.

If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know, and I will do my best to answer them.
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:43 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

pennme wrote:Some info about Winfield hotel locks. I worked at a hotel in 1987 that had this system, and was responsible for working on it. My examples of this were using Mortise cylinders in a Mortise lockset. I know that there are cylindrical locksets, but while I do have one that I bought and have taken apart, I did not work as extensively with them.

This is a Bi-Centric cylinder. It was used before the mandate for all hotels to have magnetic keys.

There are 3 keys for these locks. Guest, Maid, Emergency. The Guest key fits the side that does not have “Maid” stamped on it. The Maid and Emergency keys work the “Maid” side.

The keys have 10 cuts, and only have two cuts. I don’t know what the factory calls them, but basically a 0 (Shallow) and a 1 (Deep) cut. If there is a 0 cut on one side, the other side will be a 1, and vice versa.

The keys are all steel, and I believe that they are punched.

The guest key has a 4 digit number stamped on it, and this relates to the cuts. I do not have any biting list.
The Maid key has a numbering sequence, but I am not sure what it is, as I don’t have a Maid key.
The Emergency key is labeled Ex, where x is a number. I have only seen them as a single digit, but certainly there can be more than 10 (0-9). I have an E3. On the other side there is a 3 digit number. My E3 has a 007 key. (Must have belonged to James Bond).

The cylinders are handed based on the handing of the door. The cam is geared, and the 2 plugs have gearing on them, so that whichever one is being used, is the one that will engage the cam. There is a flat spot on each of the cylinders, so that when it is turned back to remove the key, it will not engage. The cylinders will reversed based on the handing of the door. So, if the Maid keyway is on the right for a particular handing (not sure which one), the other handing will have the Maid on the left side.

The guest keys have a larger opening in the head of the key. There is a plastic push in, that can be removed, and placed in the key. These could either be a room number, or a blind code. Winfield made a press to put these in place, although, you can just push them in. To get them out, you can use any other key, and pry it out. This was done so that when they had to rekey, they could reuse the keys at a later date for a different room. We had a board with all of the keys arranged by the 4 digit code number on them.

Guest (Side not marked Maid). This is for the key that the guest has. It will only turn far enough to pull in the latch, not the deadbolt. There is a slot at the top of the keyway that allows the key to enter, and allow the retainer to fit in, and hold the key in place. There is a second slot that is offset at the 2 o’clock, or 10 o’clock position depending on the cylinder. The guest key will not turn back to this position in normal use. This second slot is ultimately used to rekey the cylinder.

The Maid side is used for the Main and Emergency keys. The Maid key works the same as the guest key, in that it will only retract the latch, and not the deadbolt, and the Maid key will only turn one direction, (the same as the guest key for a particular cylinder). The Emergency key will turn 360 degrees, which will allow it to retract a deadbolt and then continue to retract the latch.
While the Maid and Emergency keys also have 10 cuts, only 9 can be used for key combinations. The first cut (read Bow to Tip), determines if the key is a Maid key or an Emergency key. With the retainer of the key up, if the first cut is a 0, then it is a maid key, if it is a 1, then it is an Emergency key. The rest of the cuts will be the same for both the Maid and Emergency keys of a set. They come as a set, so that they work together.
The Emergency can be turned in either direction.

No on to rekeying.

To rekey the Emergency and Maid key combination. You would insert the Emergency key, and turn it to the second cut out, and remove the key. This puts this core in a neutral core. You then would put in the Emergency that you want the cylinder keyed to, and turn it back to the 12 O’clock position. The old Emergency and Maid will no longer work. The Emergency key that you keyed it to will work, as will the Maid key that came as a pair.
To rekey the Guest key. Insert the Emergency key, rotate it 180 degrees to the 6 O’clock position. Next, insert a current working guest key in the lock with the Emergency key still in the cylinder. Now turn both keys backwards (In reference to the Guest key), until the Guest key aligns with the cutout on the guest side at either 2 O’clock (or 10 O’clock, depending on the cylinder). Remove the Guest key. This will put the guest core in a neutral position. Insert a new working Guest key, and turn them back so that the guest key is back at the 12 O’clock position. Remove the Guest key. Rotate the Emergency key back to the 12 O’clock position, and remove.

The locks can be rekeyed an infinite number of times, and the Maid / Emergency side can be rekeyed independent of the Guest side.

I did find that on the Mortise cylinders, that the maid key, when the cylinder was out of the lock could turn far enough that it would allow you to insert the guest key, and rekey it. With it in the door, typically the latch mechanism would prevent it from turning far enough.

On the maid side, the cylinder is designed for cuts 2 – 10 to align correctly. The “Magic” is in cut 1. In the cylinder, there is a part of it milled out for the first cut, that allows the Maid key to only turn one direction, and only for a certain portion, preventing it from turning backwards. Since the Maid key has the 1st cut as a 0, the wafer sticks up, but the milling on the cylinder allows it to pass.

The plugs for each side on the face are not perfectly round. The Guest plug is milled so as to only allow it to turn in one direction. Turning it the other way will bind it against the face of the Maid plug. The Maid plug has a section milled on the other side, so that when the plug is turned 180 degrees, it will allow the Guest plug to turn back, and not be blocked. This restriction of movement is not due to any gearing, but milling of the plug faces. The plug faces, if not milled, would overlap each other.

I have tried to find a set of Maid / Emergency keys, but have not yet been successful.

Additionally, Winfield made an electronic lock that was used in hotels for a while. They were a plastic headed key that had what looks like a small circuit board sticking out of it with a small hole in it, with 4 contact on each side. The keys came in different color heads. I believe the Red headed key was the Emergency. Maid keys I believe were a different color from the guest keys.
It is virtually impossible to find out anything about Winfield hotel locks.

I will write more about how the mechanism inside the lock works so that it can be rekeyed, and will try to post some pictures.

If you have any questions, please feel free to let me know, and I will do my best to answer them.



Thank you for this information, pennme. One question - is there a way to tell which handing the lock has if the mortise cylinder is not installed in the door?

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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MBI

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Post Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:50 pm

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

Outstanding info, pennme. Thank you for taking the time to write all this out. I've been curious about these locks, but as you mentioned, information on them is pretty scarce.
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macgng

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Post Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:04 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! thanks a bunch man! i'm gonna get a few more guest keys and see if i can rekey mine. thanks soo much!
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pennme

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Post Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

GWiens2001 -
You had asked if there is a way to determine the handing the lock has if the mortise cylinder is not installed.
In short, yes.
The cylinders had either an A or B stamped on the face of them. All of the A cylinders turned in one direction, and all of the B cylinders turned in the other direction. Now, in the case of mortise locks, that can be tricky. You get a Best or some Schlage, and you turn the key toward the frame to retract the latch. But then there are some Schlage (I have one sitting here next to me from a hotel), where turning away fom the frame retracts the latch. Also, you have Right Hand = Left Hand Reverse, and Left Hand = Right Hand Reverse. I have never gotten that right in my mind, and I have been working with locks for 40+ years. So, you wouldn't be able to say that an A is say always Right Hand, it would depend on your installation, but at least you would know that all of YOUR A cylinders would work in a specific way. As I remember (I could be mistaken), but the rekey cutouts were opposite the latch (ours turned toward the frame to retract the latch).

I used them in a Marriott Hotel in the Chicago suburbs back in 1987 / 1988, so it has been a long time ago. I recently went to the hotel, and asked if perhaps they had any old Emergency / Maid keys, and the security, who was a nice guy said he would check and send me them if he could find them. That was 8 months ago, so I am betting he didn't have any.

Some additional information about them. For my examples, I will use based on my cylinder, which is labeled "A". The letter is at the bottom center on the front of the cylinder, with the Maid keyway on the Right side. Someday I will try to take some pictures. The "B" cylinder is a mirror of the "A".

The wafers are split. They split runs at the top and bottom of the keyway. One part is what the key interacts with. The other side is what interacts with a sidebar. They have small teeth on them, so that in normal use they interlock. The sidebars of each cylinder arein the locked position when they are in the center of the cylinder. So, when locked with a "A" cylinder, the Maid plug is on the right, and the side bar locks on the left. The Guest plug is on the left, and locks on the right. There is a small groove that cut thru the center portion of the cylinder that allows the sidebars to extend, and lock the cylinder.

The side bar is captively held in a larger, or lack of a better term slider. In normal use, it rides on the inside of the cylinder, and only the side bar is pushed in, and the slider is pressed against the plug keeping the two halves of the waffers together. When the plug is turned to the position to rekey, there is a larger cut out in the cylinder for each plug that allows this slider to move out slighly. This allows the wafers to disengage, and that is why you can remove the key. Then you put in a new key (or the same one), and only the half of the wafer that comes in contact of the key moves. The other half stays in place. After the key is put in, and you turn it, the slider is pushed back in, which causes the wafers to press together, and the teeth engage, and make it act as one wafer. Now remember, there are 10 sets of these, one for each cut, and that is per plug.

There is also a small hole in the center directly under the center of the two plugs, and this is a maid indicator. I have two of these cylinders, one I took apart, and one complete lock set. Now in practice the intent of this plug was to let the maid know that you were in the room. I don't know if it was supposed to lock out the maid key since nothing that I have seen in the cylinder indicates there was any mechanism to support this. In practice, it didn't work real well. The pin barely stuck out, so you would have to really feel for it with your finger, rather than see it.

Disassembly of these is a one way process. The front face is peened in place much like a cap for a car door lock. To take it off, I had to use a dremmel, and destroy the entire circumference so that it would fall off. Once you have done that, the plugs will come out. If you should want to do this, be very careful taking out the either of the plugs. The plug has 20 wafers (10 when combined), and a side bar. The wafers are tiny, and they can get lost in a heart beat.

Additionally, on the back of the cylinder where the cam fit in, there is a captive spring loaded ball with a corresponding detent on the cam. This was so that you would have a tactile feel for when the key was back in the home position.

The cam uses grease, similar to White lithium. There is no grease in the plugs. I would suggest only using dry graphite, since WD40 would leak back into the grease, and make a mess.

The Electronic Winfield locks and keys I used back in the late 90's at a Choice hotel in Sandusky Ohio (love roller coasters). They no longer have the system, and no one there knows anything about it.

I don't check the board very often; work, wife, cats, and the sort, but feel free to ask if you have any other questions. I am not sure if it is acceptable to post an E-Mail address, so perhaps MBI can advise for a future post.

I have spent a life time collecting and learning about weird cylinders, and know have a large amount of knowledge. They include:

TrioVing / VingCard I have completely dissasembled and reassembled the encoder on a Ving 1050, and used to maintain large (1500+) Ving hotel lock electronic installations.
Assa
Dom
WinkHaus
BiLock
Ilco Marlok
Virtually every type of Interchangeable Core you can think of.
Locks from Australia, Italy, France, and England.

So, while this thread is for Winfield, mention if there is something else you may be interested in.

Knowledge is for sharing.
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mastersmith

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Post Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:40 pm

Re: Winfield Bicentric Wafer Hotel Lock

pennme, everyone here agrees that "knowledge is for sharing" so I am going to throw in a little ditty for you. Door handing is fairly simple. Stand on the locking side of the door. If the hinges are on the right, RH door. If they are on the left, LH door. You are done if the door pushes open, away from you. If it pulls open, toward you, it is reverse bevel, RHR & LHR. I know carpenters that like to complicate this and make it sound like rocket science, it's not.
Mark
"All ye who come this art to see / to handle anything must cautious be...." Benjamin Franklin
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