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Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:26 am
by Oldfast
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Some of you may remember my very good friend Dave (retired sheriff/lock collector). He's been good to us all ;)
This is one of two locks that his father gave to him as a child... and ultimately sparked his life-long passion as a collector.

But after all these years, he knows little to nothing about this lock!! So here's our chance to return the favor.
ANY info/history you may know or be able to dig up on this lock would certainly be of great sentimental value to him.

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I'll post some pics of the other lock after we've looked at this one a bit. Thanks guys!

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:46 am
by dicey
Hey Oldfast,

I think I know this company! I have to take in my old books to look up the information but I'm gone do that later if it is alright with you. The padlock is made in Germany could be from Velbert.
What I can tell you so far is that this padlock was probably been made between around 1900. It has to be made before 1945, you can tell that by looking at the stamping D.R.G.M. It stands for Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster and was the smaller brother of the Deutsches Reichs Patent (D.R.P). The D.R.G.M lasted for 10 years and had not as many controls and restrictions as the D.R.P and it also was only valid in Germany. It exceeded in 1945 because the German Reich was no more. Here is a video about a old lock in mint condition with the same stamping:

http://youtu.be/Qp4yKAB-iQk

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:58 am
by Oldfast
Thank you Adrian!! Superb info... look forward to anything else you might find when you get a hold of your books.
And no rush.... hell, he's had this thing for all these years with no knowledge.... a few more days won't hurt. lol

And that's a beautiful padlock in your vid!

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:14 am
by dicey
Thanks mate :)

Your friends padlock is also VERY nice! I see those from time to time on the German Ebay but in this mint condition? No way getting one for me :)

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:04 pm
by uklockpicker
beautiful sorry i cannot add any further information ...

But in one word , thats how best to describe it :drool:

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:35 pm
by dicey
I knew I have seen this padlock before!

Not in my books though I think in Velbert as I said before. Here is a topic in another forum which will help you in the history of that beauty mate:
http://www.antique-locks.com/showthread ... an+padlock

I think I can be of help in identifying the manufacturer of this padlock. I have one very similar, but without the Sengpiel name. Back in 1981 I wrote a letter to the lock museum in Velbert. I received a reply from Herr Oetelshofen who identified it as having been made by the firm of Damm & Ladwig in Velbert. The company was founded in 1886 and was taken over by Yale & Towne in 1927. Notice the similarities - the shape, the key, and that oak leaf on the keyhole cover.
from in the topic!

I actually went to the museum but only for a very restricted time because I was on a shedule. Therefore I totally forgot to ask them about this padlock but I could do this now if the information is not enough for you. I will also get a new book for Christmas "Das europäische Vorhangschloss" Exponate aus der Hanns Schell Collection Graz. There may be more information in that book but I don't know yet.

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:36 pm
by dicey
A very nice German lock found his way to America years ago, sweet!

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:42 pm
by Oldfast
Adrian, you have been tremendously helpful!!! Thank you so much.
It will be SUCH a treat for Dave to have a look at the info you've given us!

I'll try to get some pics of the other lock up tonight.

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:20 am
by Logan
The Oak leaves make me wonder if it might be and early WM Enders "oak leaf" padlock.

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:38 am
by Harvey
dicey wrote:Hey Oldfast,

I think I know this company! I have to take in my old books to look up the information but I'm gone do that later if it is alright with you. The padlock is made in Germany could be from Velbert.
What I can tell you so far is that this padlock was probably been made between around 1900. It has to be made before 1945, you can tell that by looking at the stamping D.R.G.M. It stands for Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster and was the smaller brother of the Deutsches Reichs Patent (D.R.P). The D.R.G.M lasted for 10 years and had not as many controls and restrictions as the D.R.P and it also was only valid in Germany. It exceeded in 1945 because the German Reich was no more. Here is a video about a old lock in mint condition with the same stamping:

http://youtu.be/Qp4yKAB-iQk


Too quick for me!

I can add the following, to actually confuse the age of this even more;
porcelainmarksandmore.com wrote:The acronym D.R.G.M. with or without punctuation stands for Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster, meaning that the design or function of an item was officially registered inside all of the Germany states and not only locally registered as it was the case before the introduction of centralized registration. [...]

D.R.G.M. registration was introduced 1891 and if you are dating items you should hold in mind that even during Allied occupation up until 1949, registration procedures remained untouched and still used the D.R.G.M. registration documents, which of course explains why D.R.G.M. marks can be found on products actually manufactured up until 1952 as the registration itself was valid for three years. As from the end of October 1952, all registrations were definately marked with 'Deutsches Bundesgebrauchsmuster' (D.B.G.M.) or simply with 'Gebrauchsmuster' or 'Gebrauchsmusterschutz', see below.

Source

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:39 am
by Oldfast
......and the plot thickens! lol

Really appreciate it guys, as history & research is not my strong point... nor do I enjoy it.

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:21 am
by dicey
I have to agree and disagree at the same time ;)

The company produced padlocks like this one between 1886 and 1927 then they were bought by Yale Town. Therefor this padlock should be made between that area of time.
Your information on the German Reichs patent is however very interesting and I didn't konw that yet! I just asked my mother on this because she is a historian she agreed with you but said that in some areas it was just used until 1949 and that many things being produced were just stamped with "Gebrauchsmuster".

When they started using the D.R.G.M in 1891 we can say that the lock has to be made between 1891 - 1927

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:08 am
by Oldfast
As promised... pics of the other lock that got him started.

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In case you can't make out the words by the keyway: "PAT & TRADE MARK"

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Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:18 am
by GWiens2001
Think I found a few more of these padlocks, not in nearly the condition of this beauty your friend has. It appears to be a scandinavian padlock manufactured by Miller Lock Co. Below is the info

"999" - Flat Key - Design 5. 1 3/8" wide (approx). Brass case. Brass shackle. Mfg by: Miller Lock Co. Milton Jackson Patent #'s D20016 464326. 6290

Click on the link below, and scroll down. You will see them, and it looks like multiple sizes.

http://www.antique-padlocks.com/scandi_brass_a-z.htm

Gordon

Re: Hoping for History

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:37 pm
by dicey
While looking at the picture I had the same name and company in mind and then saw that someone already posted that information :)