Page 1 of 2

Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:17 pm
by ratlock
I got this in the post today from @MartinHewitt, Many thanks for this jewel in the crown of my lever lock collection.
This lock with the keys weighs around 2.5 kg.
It has 13 levers, with anti pick serrations.
The middle lever is designed to block your pick from moving back and forth under the levers, by the way it slots into a grove halfway up the curtain.
Its has a broad centre post to block most pick tools.
Its has a curtain in the keyway too.
It is a well designed. Heavily engineered, beast of a lock.
Heres the pictures, many thanks @MartinHewitt.

Image

Image

Image

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:27 pm
by huxleypig
Cool lock! So exactly how little room is there when that middle lever is resting on the curtain? Does it contact it fully or does 'gate wobble' allow anything past it? Does the curtain throw the bolt or is it the key? Just wondering how a tool would have to work...

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:35 pm
by ratlock
The middle lever slots into a grove in the curtain. To take the middle lever out when stripping the lock you have to turn the curtain to get it out the slot. Its a great, and very simple good idea. there is no way to get past it with a wire pick.
Curtain throws the bolt.

Image

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:46 pm
by huxleypig
Right, so it actually sits below the curtain lip? Nice. I think you do not need to go past it though? How would it be tensioned?

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:21 pm
by ratlock
you can tension the curtain any way you like, its not going to slip out of place. I will have a look again tomorow. But if the middle lever is effectivly a ward, that doesnt move position when the curtain is turned. I cant see how you would pick the back few levers.
Because of the curtain its not like picking a double bitted lock without a curtain, (left right). The curtain on the non sprung levers makes you pick front, and back, of the curtain,and either side of the middle lever in the curtain slot.

If its like a ward and doesnt move when the curtain is turned. You would have to drop ( after a "T" bar type tension tool drops to the back for tension. Then 4 wires ( behind ward, front of ward. Front of curtain, back of curtain), and there is plenty room on this beast for 20SWG wires to work along side one another.
Ohh boy.

Thats is. If the thickness of a wire in the curtain, doesnt move the middle lever off gate when the curtain is turned.

Any ideas welcome, Ive just worked a 15 hour day, and had some home made cider now, so logic is fading for me

Watch this space

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:31 pm
by MartinHewitt
Oh, ratlock, now everyone knows your keys!

The six levers on the front of the lock seem to have a group encoding. My lock has there the same levers as does every other lock of (exactly) this type where I have seen the key. So all these locks seem to come from the same batch. (Maybe they produce only one batch? :shock: Probably not.) There are two other variants where I have seen photos. One was for ATMs and had something like a "direct entry fence" instead of a bolt, i.e. the bolt work of the safe itself had the stump which needed to enter the lever gates. The other variant comes complete with bolt work. I don't know how the internals of the lock are.

The lock locks impressive. There is only one thing I don't like. It is the rough surface of the inside of the levers. The safe would have looked much less impressive. The key way of the lock would have been the full key way. This means the front of this lock would have been flush with the safe surface.

Martin Hewitt

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:36 pm
by MartinHewitt
ratlock wrote:and there is plenty room on this beast for 20SWG wires to work along side one another.

If you can get 24 wires down the hole you could make a piano-like picking device. But beware! At the six back levers is the key hole stump.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:11 am
by ratlock
Here are Two pictures. One with the curtain turned to engage the bolt, with Two (20 swg wire thickness) fore/aft. (note position of ward lever gate)
Image

And another picture of the ward with the curtain in the open position.

Image

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:24 pm
by huxleypig
So this was my thought, 1 wire to operate the levers behind the middle lever and another wire to pick the levers in front. If the lack of springs means you need to double the number of wires for bi-directional movement then yh, there's more than enough room to do that, even accounting for the post (which only comes halfway up through the curtain?). There are 2 sides to the keyway after all.

As the curtain can be used to tension/throw the bolt then your tensioner need not even go through the keyway, it can bite into the curtain from the front.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:31 pm
by MartinHewitt
huxleypig wrote:(which only comes halfway up through the curtain?)

Yup.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:35 am
by MartinHewitt
Some more pictures with links at the end: http://wiki.koksa.org/Schweres_SSF-Tresorschloss

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:47 am
by ratlock
huxleypig wrote:So this was my thought, 1 wire to operate the levers behind the middle lever and another wire to pick the levers in front. If the lack of springs means you need to double the number of wires for bi-directional movement then yh, there's more than enough room to do that, even accounting for the post (which only comes halfway up through the curtain?). There are 2 sides to the keyway after all.

As the curtain can be used to tension/throw the bolt then your tensioner need not even go through the keyway, it can bite into the curtain from the front.


Great minds think alike. I'm with you on the theory, haven't got the time to try it in practice yet.
I think I might spend some time on more mundane 7 to 9 lever locks for a while. Before I'm ready for this monster.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:57 pm
by Jaakko Fagerlund
As I'm one of the tool-hifists, I wouldn't use wires but instead make a pin&cam or pick&form tool, but tha's just me :)

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:26 pm
by MartinHewitt
Jaakko Fagerlund wrote:As I'm one of the tool-hifists, I wouldn't use wires but instead make a pin&cam or pick&form tool, but tha's just me :)

Are there any tutorials or just any information about this?

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:36 pm
by Patrick Star
More home-made pin&cam tools are definitely needed! Though I'm doubtful that should be considered picking really... more like decoding?