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Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:19 am
by Jaakko Fagerlund
Martin, I'm not sure what kind of tutorials you mean. Pin & cam is a tool in which you have all the keycuts as movable pins that you can go under with a cam shaped part to try and lift the pin to determine binding. Pick & form is a tool where the keycode is set with a part similar in pin&cam, but it is usually withdrawnwhile tension is held and a separate tool is inserted to test the binding.

Forgot also one tool, which would probably work on this lock: Magickey. There is none for this lock, but the technique could be used, basically autoimpressioning.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:34 am
by ratlock
Using a pin and cam decoder requires skill and practice to use, every bit as hard a skill as picking.
Just a different tool for the job.
I think it should be looked at as a form of picking.
Where as decoding reading levers is another skill set.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:57 pm
by Patrick Star
Note that I don't intend to denigrate it in any way. It's just that it's a distinct thing from what's normally known as picking. Just like impressioning (which also requires skill and practice) isn't considered "picking" in the classic sense even though it's based on the same basic principle of locating binding/non-binding pins.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:36 pm
by ratlock
Your right @Patrick Star, sorry if I sounded grumpy. I hadnt had breakfast yet.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:08 am
by Jaakko Fagerlund
I too think they are quite separate class of tools when you categorise them by their technique as opposed to picking, but to me picking is difficult as it is somewhat fiddly whereas a tool designed to open the lock is straightforward science to use and pretty much can't go wrong :D

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:13 am
by MartinHewitt
It is sometimes difficult to find the right word. Boundaries are not fixed and definitions vary from person to person. What is picking? Using a hook? Using a Hobbs' hook? Using a Hobbs' hook with a pointer to show the height of the lift and perhaps a mechanism to show the lever number where the hook is positioned? Using a Lishi tool? Using a pin-and-cam tool? With all these methods you feel for the signs of the lock. So IMHO none is impressioning where you do not feel but look, but somehow there is for me to the end of the list a decrease in the meaning of picking.

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:00 pm
by Patrick Star
Well, just to complicate matters :) - What about 'picking' by sight and not by feel (eg certain slider locks)?

Re: Pegau Bomb

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:39 pm
by MartinHewitt
Excellent complication!