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Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

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candado3

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Post Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:54 am

Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

I was trying to open an old Yale 905F padlock that was pretty dirty and jammed. I soaked it in WD40 and cleaned it out the best I could.
I then tried to place a shim but it would not go in as the area was still a bit mucked up.
I then decided to try and pick the lock. The pins were a bit stiff but I managed to move them and was doing well until there was a kind of a snap and the shackle popped open. The problem is that the shackle appears to be stuck. It wiggles a bit but it will not spin it around like it should and it will not go out further nor will it go back into the seat.
Any suggestions as to what I can try to do to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.
I am thinking that I might be able to carefully unscrew the part that the shackle seats into to see if there is enough space to remove it and then try to disassemble the lock.

Note: I'm fairly new to this but really love these old locks.
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Riyame

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Post Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

I am guessing the pins fell back into the plug and locked it up when you pushed the shackle up. You would have to pick or shim it again. In these the bottom of the shackle is actually the lock plug.
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candado3

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Post Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

Thanks for the reply.
I tried to place a shim again and this time it was able to slide in, I guess that opening the lock loosened up the area.
I shimmed the lock and it released the shackle so you were right in your guess that the pins had fallen back into the plug.
I suppose that with the key in this cannot occur.
Thanks a lot for the solution.
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candado3

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Post Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:28 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

Look what I found inside the shackle seat (not sure what the proper name for this would be)
I have a number of these locks but this one has what appears to be a slotted screw head at the bottom.
It will be interesting to see what it is when I finally get to disassembling this lock.
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GWiens2001

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:21 am

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

That is not factory. At least I have seen no PKPT locks with a screw in there. All the ones I have seen are disassembled by unscrewing the bushing.

Gordon
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MrWizard

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:21 am

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

That is very strange.
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candado3

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:45 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

Not sure if I should continue on this thread or start a new one.

So I decided to do a bit more investigation on this padlock.
When I tried to unscrew the shackle seat as I've seen on other write-ups, I was surprised that the brass ring came off revealing a cast iron ring with three grooves on each side. Under magnification this appears to be part of the casting for the housing of the lock but I'm not 100% certain of this.
I then removed the slotted screw which was well machined as you will see from the photos.
I've added 10 photos of what I have found so far.
Not sure if I'm adding too many photos, let me know.
I am going slow as I'm new to this and have never dismantled a lock before. and this is as far as I'm going for now. Any tips would be appreciated.
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femurat

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

The photos are never too many!

Looks like you have a strange padlock. Can't wait to see it disassembled.

Cheers :)
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MrWizard

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Post Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:59 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

WOW just when you think you seen it all this comes along. The fact there is grooves on both sides after that brass shell basically fell off maybe you better look under highly lighted magnification around the bottom outside edge of that grooved part that looks like the cast iron body to see it is really a cap that will still unscrew or maybe now that screw has been removed that part might just come straight off, it might be just stuck there at the moment or turn 1/4 turn. Maybe looking at the height of the screw it is there to block that grooved part from sliding one way or the other so it can come off. Otherwise you have to ask yourself way it that screw so tall is my thinking. Could be only the screw is that long so it doesn't loosen up too far while it is locked. Reason I say all this is where is the flat spring metal shackle spring retainer it has to be under that part. Or maybe there is NO flat spring at all on this lock. Do you feel a strong spring pulling the shackle back downward the whole time you have been trying to open this lock? When you look down in that hole do you see anything or a hollow area or is is solid? Could it be if you bang the lock on the bench on the edge the flat spring or retainer will slide to release that shackle now that screw is removed is a good guess. I give you all these options to check as one of them has to be there.

Richard
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
Kurt Vonnegut
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candado3

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Post Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:06 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

I looked at the lock again this morning.
There is a little washer like thing that I believe is broken off of the flat spring.
There is definitely a ridge at the base of the inner part of the cap which leads me to believe that it can be removed even though I cannot see any gap around the outside but this might be just grime and rust that is obscuring it.
I tried to remove the cap but it would not budge.
I don’t want to damage it so any suggestions?
When I opened the lock there was a definite pop and now the shackle does not want to go back into the lock so I think that the broken spring might have come away from the groove that it rides in.
On moving the shackle around a bit, it popped right out of the lock, luckily I was able to find the drive pins that spilled out on the desktop. The springs were a bit stuck and two of them stretched when I removed them.
I think that the insides of the lock are pretty much as expected, not sure if the shackle spring is the same.
All of the pins both key and driver appear to be serrated.
I'm going to try to repair this padlock and make a key. I have another of these where someone has butchered it by crudely drilling the side where the pin plugs are, so hope I can salvage the shackle spring from it and then find a key blank.
Anyway I have added a bunch more photos.
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MrWizard

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Post Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

Well that mystery is solved. Too bad that eye is broken off that shackle spring. You can make another new one but the vintage collectable aspect will not be there. That broken off eye down inside made the first set of pictures look like part of the threaded hole have a section broken off. Getting a new spring down into place and then getting it to go into that shackle groove and get the spring to have the right amount of pressure is going to be a challenge good luck. This lock is a case where it might have been better to impression a key to the lock even thought has a broken shackle spring it may have still worked and would be original. Very unusual find and glad you posted this. I believe it has never been seen by most. Very rare I would say.
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand."
Kurt Vonnegut
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Oldfast

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Post Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:18 am

Re: Need Help Please - Stuck Shackle

Interesting indeed. Not that I've worked with an enormous amount of 'em -
but with the fair number of them I have come across - I've never seen that.

Thanks for sharing!
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