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Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

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GWiens2001

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:04 am

Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

A while back, I received an S&G 3511 padlock (without combination). Had not seen one before. The fact is, had never heard of one before. Can't even seem to find any mention of it anywhere. So decided to change that for when someone else looks for info.

After months of working at the lock, finally worked out the combination. But wanted to share what the lock looked like, so if someone finds one, they can see what it is.

Here is the lock as I got it...

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Yes, it is a model 1951

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This one was made in 1962. (Amazing that this thing is already over 50 years old!)

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Cleaned and opened!

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This is a predecessor of the 8088 padlock. The two locks side by side...

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Instead of being upraised like the 8088, the 3511 has the S&G logo cast into the lock body. Note that the location changes. 3511 was made in Rochester, New York, while the 8088 was made in Nicholasville, Kentucky. (Both are in the United States). Why they got rid of the old style logo that had so much class is something I'll never understand.

When the lock is open, this button can slide up, opening the change key hole, allowing the combination to be changed. Am sure there are threads here on how to do that. If not, let me know and I'll write one up. More specifically, on the 8088, it slides up. It is not sliding up on the 3511. Not sure if that is due to some difference in function design or that the lock is not functioning correctly. If you know, please post the answer!

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On the 3511, the model number is hand stamped on the back of the lock, and below that a cast section showing that the patent is pending...

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On the 8088, the model number is cast, along with the patent numbers.

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There is a number for identification on the shackle on both models. The 3511:

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And the 8088, which also has a clip on the shackle just above where it fits into the lock body when locked:

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The next change that noticed is the number and location of pins that hold the back cover on. The 3511 has two pins on the top of the lock, and one on each side of the lock. The 8088 has one pin on top and two pins in each side.

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That about covers the difference between the two from what I see. Enjoy!

Pretty sure the original factory combination would have been 10-20-30, same as the early 8088 padlocks. But the later 8088 and 8077 padlocks have a factory combination of 25-0. Since I have not been able to open the change key hole, the combination is whatever it was before I received it, 34-10-23.

Gordon
Last edited by GWiens2001 on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Malekal

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:06 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

The stories those locks could tell...
Malekal: I guess I'll try... I thought you had to go light
xeo: you do whatever the lock wants
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Neilau

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:18 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Great info and pics.

You say you figured out the combination (after many months).

Did you brute force it?

I've never heard of one being manipulated.

Thanks for the post.
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For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.
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GWiens2001

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Neilau wrote:Great info and pics.

You say you figured out the combination (after many months).

Did you brute force it?

I've never heard of one being manipulated.

Thanks for the post.


Yes, brute force. Luckily, started with 49 and worked my way backward, or my son would be my age before I got it open.

Think I can figure out a way to manipulate them, but would need to make some sort of jigs to hold the shackle and the lock body (separately), and to hold a caliper in place.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Neilau

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:56 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

GWiens2001 wrote:
Think I can figure out a way to manipulate them, but would need to make some sort of jigs to hold the shackle and the lock body (separately), and to hold a caliper in place.

Gordon



WOW. If you manipulate one of these, that would definitely qualify you for the Pantheon of LP Gods. :D

As I understand it the fence does not touch the gates till you dial it back to 0 AND pull on the shackle.

I imaging that it would be a really tedious task if you had to do that on each try plus the number of turns required to test each wheel.

I'm no expert on combination locks but the design of this one (I studied the patent), I reckon, makes it as close to impossible as you can get.

Interested to know what you and others think.
Clark's Law (Arthur C)

For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert.
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LocksportSouth

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Could you possibly design some kind of auto-dialler to spin it very quickly, testing all the combos? I realise that wouldn't be practical in a real-world scenario for gov't spies or something like that but as a collector who has time to get it open and the ability to hook it up in a vice and with tension applied where needed etc, that seems like a viable option?
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Oldfast

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:44 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Fantastic stuff!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
http://www.youtube.com/Oldfast911
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GWiens2001

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:40 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Updating this thread and post as have learned more about this lock. The model is not a 3511. The model number is 1951, (predecessor of the 8088). It seems that the earliest versions (like this one) had black dials instead of green. Many thanks to Kwosalt99 and Squelchtone.

Image

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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MBI

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Post Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:13 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

I LOVE it when I get to learn something brand new on the forum.
The lock looks nice now that you've cleaned it up.
Thanks for sharing the info.
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femurat

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Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:52 pm

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

GWiens2001 wrote:Think I can figure out a way to manipulate them, but would need to make some sort of jigs to hold the shackle and the lock body (separately), and to hold a caliper in place.


Hey Gordon, did you see the decoder mh made for the master speed dial? Can't find a link right now but will look for it if you haven't.

Cheers :)
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GWiens2001

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Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:03 pm

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

femurat wrote:
GWiens2001 wrote:Think I can figure out a way to manipulate them, but would need to make some sort of jigs to hold the shackle and the lock body (separately), and to hold a caliper in place.


Hey Gordon, did you see the decoder mh made for the master speed dial? Can't find a link right now but will look for it if you haven't.

Cheers :)


No, haven't. Would love to see it.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

GWiens2001 wrote:No, haven't. Would love to see it.

Me too.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
http://www.youtube.com/Oldfast911
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femurat

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Post Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:31 pm

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

Can't find it... maybe I confused the author of said tool. Just to be sure I'll send him a PM and ask. I'll keep you updated.

Cheers :)
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madsamurai

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Post Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:18 am

Re: Comparison of S&G 3511 and 8088 Padlocks

GWiens2001 wrote:Updating this thread and post as have learned more about this lock. The model is not a 3511. The model number is 1951, (predecessor of the 8088). It seems that the earliest versions (like this one) had black dials instead of green.

I just got one of these from mastersmith, but has the green dial. Been trying to figure out what the model was (thought it was an 8088, but didn't look quite like all the pictures). Curious if you can tell by the green dial what approximate year this one was made? It has no markings whatsoever besides the logo on the front and 'PAT PEND' on the back.

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