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Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

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Papa Gleb

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Post Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:10 pm

Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Hello Dear Friends,

For the past few months, I have been learning, studying and battling antique lever padlocks specifically pancake padlocks. The mind boggles when locks designed over 100 years ago can be some of the most difficult locks to pick open which is why these locks have took a big place in my heart. During this time, I obtained 2 Yale and 1 Champion (pre 1902) pancake locks and quickly learned that although they are similar on the outside, they are very different on the in with different levels of difficulty. I finally got all 3 locks picked open, learned tons along the way, made decoding tools (inspired by The Lock Butcher and Lauren) and blanks. This amazing experience helped me to discover my passion (in this hobby) for these antique lever locks which I have started to collect. My understanding was that every single one of us is collecting, restoring and/or repairing antique padlocks but to my surprise that isn’t so true. During my battles, I have studied everything posted by Lauren and had many questions but having the above mentioned mind-set, I figured he must be bombarded with tons of messages every day so I feared he would not have time for my noob questions. This fear is probably the reason why we often have people in the shadows as it is very common to fear judgment but moving on, I finally reached out and was shocked to hear what Lauren had told me…. that I was actually the first person to contacting him with real questions related to these old locks. He opened my eyes to the reality that although many people may appreciate antique locks, there is a very small amount of us who actually have a passion for them and this is the reason I am sharing this and will continue to share my antique padlock journey. These locks have laid the foundation to our modern locks and can not be forgotten. Ultimately I would very much love to following Lauren's foot steps and make my own keys saving these old locks but living in an apartment I have no place for big tools/machines (drill press, grinder etc). I have some ideas of how to make this possible but that is another venture at a much later time.

So enough story time and lets move on to the fun stuff. If you have not seen my videos on decoding & picking pancake locks here are the links: https://youtu.be/gC-3Dhq7g2g and https://youtu.be/ahVygbf-Joo .If you have not seen Lauren’s work, the links are posted in the video description. I have also linked a few great videos done by the Lock Butcher on the same topic.

Here we have a Miller “Champion” push-key 6 lever padlock made on or before their patent date of 1902. After their 1902 patent, all of these padlocks have a pin above the letter H. My belief is that the pin was added to better hold the shackle/hasp in the lock when its open. I have not yet had a chance to play with a pancake post their 1902 patent (crazy luck shipping story will be shared shortly) but from what I have gathered, they have become slightly easier to pick. These locks do not fall to the easier methods of opening and require decoding the gates which in itself is tricky. As you can see in the pictures, I had to take measurements 3 times and even the 3rd measurements, although opened the lock, were of. As Lauren recommended and I fully agree, measurements of the gates must be taken from each side of the levers. At this point, I had the lock open and accurate measurements of the gates so next step to make keys but first need to make blanks. I had a thin piece of metal and a key sample (thanks to the Lock Butcher for providing me with a key sample), I scribed the key outline and began to work. Lucky I was able to use a bench grinder at my buddy’s shop for an hour which saved me tons and tons of hours I would have spent using my Dremel but moving on. After I had the rough outline, Dremel with all sorts of different grinding stones went to work. You can see all of the stages of the key as I am still currently working on 3 others. My mistake was not measuring the metal thickness and padlock key hole thickness. Instead I used visual comparison to the key sample I had which was much thinner and started to thin the metal using whatever I could (stones, cutting wheels etc). In reality, I only needed to remove 0.02 which some 220 grit sandpaper would have done a much nice even job. You can see below how creative my mind got to thin a flat piece of metal. Ok so maybe its not that creative but the jig works and actually lead me to a few more jig ideas but that’s nor here nor there. At this point, I was left with a good outside and the right thickness blade that easily fit into the lock so I moved onto making a key ring hole. Good think I had a step drill so I was able to make a nice round hole but not without some filing. I decided to start with a smaller twist drill bit which for some reason didn't go down the point I punched so I had to file the opposite side to make sure the step drill wouldn't go off to much. At this point the blank was done and ready for the bitting but it needed to be marked to fit all 6 levers. I measured the blank blade and divided by 6 which gave me a measurement of 0.052 which was perfect because each lever is approximately 0.050 thick. I then marked the blade with a black sharpie and marked lines where the cuts will be. You basically multiply 0.052 by the lever you want to cut. So for lever 1 you would mark a line from the base of the blade to 0.052 then for lever 2 the measurement from the base of the blade is 0.104 and so on, 3 is 0.156. With my blank all marked, I measure my file which was 0.051 (again perfect) and I slowly started to file all but the highest cut on my tool which is the same as to say the lever with the lowest gate. As the cuts started to appear, I started to compare the cuts to the tool and slowly filing off each cut as needed. At some point it got very hard to see which cuts needed more so I just put the blank and tool together against the light and it instantly became clear as the light would shine through the gaps. Continued this process until the blank and the tool met flush against each other and it was time to check the key. I inserted the key and pop, the lock opened. A bit more sandpaper on the cuts to smooth the sharp edges a bit left by the file and I was done. I now had a very nice first generation pancake padlock with a fully working key I made myself. A very amazing feeling that will never get tried… can easily be compared to the plug turns whether from picking or impressioning…. yea that feeling .

I did not mean for this to be so long but thoughts just started to came out and I went with it. I will be posting pictures of the other 2 pancake locks once I get working keys made for them, I have several other antique padlocks coming in this and next week but the star of the show is still to come…. I have a Miller double sided lever lock that arrived with all broken springs so I am making completely new springs of scratch. I have been taking pictures with every step so there will be plenty to show plus the Lock Butcher is making a barrel key for this lock also from scratch. I will post the diagrams of this key idea once its all done and ready.
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Lauren

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Post Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

After four long years of posting, I finally stimulated someone in making their own keys (that I know of), and this is the primary reason why I stopped posting at that other site. Thanks for the personal story, and you did a real nice job on those keys. I used to really be hooked on modern day locks, but the reward of bringing antique key-less padlocks back to working condition is far more overshadowing.
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jeffmoss26

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Post Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:56 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

VERY COOL! Will be watching for the next video once you get the lock I sent!
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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GWiens2001

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Post Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:45 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Very nicely done, PG. The results are beautiful.

And Lauren, you were the one who got me interested in making keys. Remember the WB? :D

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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femurat

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:48 am

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Excellent job on that key Papa Gleb. Looks perfect!

Lauren, you inspired me too. Remember the MBTA railroad padlock? Well, my key can't compete with this one, and can't be considered similar to your many work of art, but it was the best that I could do, and I was inspired by your work.

Cheers :)
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MrWizard

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:58 am

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Papa Gleb

Very nice job on those pancake key blanks they look great.
I went crazy on making keys for these after I found out how to from Lauren.

Laurens work on Champion Pancake locks is what brought me to these forums. I messaged him a couple years ago on how to make keys for these and he replied quickly. He said I was the first person to ask him for help after all the time he had been posting about these. After he explained a few things I was unsure about I made a quick decoder out of paper clips and needle nose vise grips with thin piece of rubber on both side. But in order to use it I had to make some mini calipers to measure the gates. I used shrink tubing to hold the 2 wires together it works very well. I decoded 2 champions and had them open in about an hour. Lauren is the man when it comes to antique locks.

Keep up the good work Papa.
Richard
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Kurt Vonnegut
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Doogs

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:23 am

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Excellent work Papa. I'm still procrastinating on getting to work on the spare keys for mine (from scratch and not cheating) I can appreciate your frustration over not having the space to work or "shop up" if you will. Keep up the great work.

Lauren I think it's safe to say you have inspired a ton of people to attempt what you have and it's unfortunate you didn't get the feedback that you desired. But know that we are out there and appreciate all you have done for the community.

A big hats off to both of you and to everyone else who takes the time to share their knowledge on these boards and elsewhere. You are all greatly appreciated and admired even if we don't always voice the admiration and appreciation we have.

:hbg: :salute:
The other, other, other, other Mike

(21:55:20) HAL 9001RC:: Heh heh uh heh uh heh uh uh heh PhoneMan said ass
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Papa Gleb

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Thank you very much gents. It’s very empowering to hear your kind words. I knew there had to be more people inquiring with Lauren then just me but it is still shocking to see that there was only half a handful of us and stretching that over the 4-5 years he has been posting. I believe the lack of available blanks and replacement parts for these antique locks may be the main reason they don’t get the attention they deserve. Just to make this one working key from start to finish took about 6 +/- hours which can be very discouraging. I can only image the amount of hours it will take me to make a barrel key from a piece of stock with the tools I have and Im not even sure I will be successful but you can bet I will give it a try.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Doogs, Lauren gets tons of feedback for his work but its all pretty much a one liner "great work ...." but a very small amount of people actually contacted him or showed interest in antique padlock beyond that. You are even a great example, you have antique locks to play with but you put them aside for later while you play with current locks (assumed) which is perfectly fine so please don't misunderstand :)
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Lauren

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Post Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Thanks, Papa. Your last comment pretty much summarizes the shortfall of feedback that I didn't see in my LP??? thread. Sorry, Richard you fell through the cracks. I do remember talking to you. I expect people who really follow me will either buy my book or they won't. The apex of my talent and latest inventions are there. Those who have put their money where their mouth is--I appreciate it. The silent inspiration is a killer. I would have liked people to post their versions of my work just as Papa has in this thread. It would have kept me going. There are those who have bought my specialty tools as well, so I do see that as feedback as well.

Papa, I see this thread the beginnings of where I left off. Good start and good luck.
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Papa Gleb

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:12 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Finally Finally and again Finally got the pancake lock for the 3rd video. I am also almost done making a pancake lock, yes a lock not key :) stay tuned
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jeffmoss26

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Making a lock?!
femurat: They're called restricted for a reason...
Innerpicked: The more keys you carry, the more important you look
GWiens2001: Great video! Learned a lot about what fun can be had with a forklift and a chainsaw.
pmaxey83: but i first have to submit the proper forms for a new hobby to my wife
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LockButcher

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:48 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Man the finished product looks great! Nice job Papa Gleb!
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LockButcher

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:51 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Wait... What!? You're making a pancake lock?!
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Doogs

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Post Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: Papa Gleb's Pancakes & Keys + Antique Journey

Papa Gleb wrote:Doogs, Lauren gets tons of feedback for his work but its all pretty much a one liner "great work ...." but a very small amount of people actually contacted him or showed interest in antique padlock beyond that. You are even a great example, you have antique locks to play with but you put them aside for later while you play with current locks (assumed) which is perfectly fine so please don't misunderstand :)



Damn Papa that really hurt!!! Just kidding you are right though And I have some materials for the Adlake and Keline but my method will involve3 pieces and some brazing as I didn't find any suitable heavy stock yet. It won't be as pretty but if I can bang out a rough one to start then it'll be easier for the solid key later. Laurens techniques will still be useful for the 3 piece just have to modify it a bit for the blade and bow

I Finally dug out my drill press, bench grinder and some other stuff and set up a temporary workshop in the attic so hopefully I can get caught up on some projects. Which should make Riy happy as well as myself. Now getting some free time for myself and I'll be good to go.
I see you mentioned you are going to make a pancake lock! Far more intense than what I have in mind but I have an oldie (circa 1850 I would guess) that is missing the guts so I might get ambitious and give my smithy skills a workout.
The other, other, other, other Mike

(21:55:20) HAL 9001RC:: Heh heh uh heh uh heh uh uh heh PhoneMan said ass
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