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New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

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escher7

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Post Fri May 24, 2013 7:05 pm

New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Like many of you, I have purchased the top tension detainer pick and am working on learning to pick the locks. I scored three typical Chinese padlocks recently and have lots to work with. I have also watched Solomon's excellent 2 part video and understand the technique. My problem is not really being able to feel the sidebar engaging. Yes, I have tried light tension,medium tension and heavy tension. I understand that it is necessary to start with the "fattest" disk and that practice is required. But still, none of the three locks gives me the kind of obvious feedback I see on videos. Suggestions?

One question I do have is this:

If you look at the key and say the first cut is a one. Starting with all disks set clockwise, does that mean that the first disk, with a 1 cut would then only be backed off slightly and say a 2 cut slightly more? Trying to visualize in my mind that seems to make sense and using the key as a guide should help in picking the lock.

Of course the other problem is finding the depth of each disk since there are no guidelines on the pick. Anyone know if these cylinders have a standard depth so the pick could be marked?

Comments welcomed.
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Solomon

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Post Sun May 26, 2013 7:13 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Are you making sure to zero the discs? I've seen some people try to pick them without zeroing and having a really hard time of it lol. You wouldn't get much feedback from the discs that way and you'd have a fuck of a time maneuvering through the disc pack as well.

If you are zeroing the discs, then I'm not sure what the problem could be. If you start with the very top disc, turn it all the way back then all the way to zero again and feel nothing whatsoever then something odd is going on. Unlike pin tumblers, all the discs are binding at once. There is no binding order; you can actually work straight from one end to the other without having to back-track providing you're careful and take your time a bit. I suspect you might be having trouble because you're actively trying to find the "binding" disc, when in fact all of them are and it doesn't matter.

I do have one lock here which I can't pick with the 2-in-1 tool though. It has the same bitting as another lock I have which picks very easily, but I can get next to no feedback out of any of the discs in it and it's very frustrating. Interestingly though, picking it with a basic wrench and wire is very easy. I'd suggest experimenting with other tools before you start going apeshit with modifications. You can see these picks in action here. They're very simple to make.

Don't worry about the depth of the discs. You'll get the feel for how far to move the pick from one disc to the next in time. Just play with the pick alongside one of the keys and you'll get an idea. It's not as hard as you think but as with all things it does take time to adjust.

And you're right about the front disc. I covered this in my videos; if the front disc isn't a zero cut then it needs to be turned back a little because it isn't set under tension. The rest of the discs will still bind and you'll be able to set them, but in order to set the front disc and open it you need to apply tension to one of the zero discs and turn the front one back to align it.
Image
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escher7

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Post Sun May 26, 2013 10:21 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Thanks Solomon. That video had a couple of new hints that might help. I am getting some of the disks to feel set, but I do not get the obvious click shown on most videos. I will just keep at it and hope it comes in time.
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Presumedsublime

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Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Where do I find these locks!? I've asked Mr. Google in every way I can think of with no luck :-(
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escher7

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Location: Canada

Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:34 am

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Presumedsublime wrote:Where do I find these locks!? I've asked Mr. Google in every way I can think of with no luck :-(

I found mine in a second hand shop, but if you want to buy new ones try Chinese vendors like Dhgate, Aliexpress etc.
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:29 am

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

eBay. Look under high security padlocks, max price at, say, $8. Rule out Master Lock, and you will be left with those cheap disc detainer locks, and the unlikely Medeco.

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Presumedsublime

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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:04 pm

Location: St. Paul, MN

Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Thank you I'll give eBay a try.
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rai

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Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:46 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

Ive been making tools for these, and manuvering the T pick through the disc pack is difficult sometimes, you unset a disc sometimes to move to the next

I have decided to make some of the T picks shorter and thinner,

consider two discs one set at 0 and the other at 90 degrees, if you look through them, the open space is a square defined by the openings in the two discs

now picture a T that is short enough to pass through diagonally but still can engage the discs, make it thin and almost knife edge at the ends

like this () ()

when this is turned diagonally it can pass two severly crossed discs. this is my latest thoughts, some tools I made earlier in the week didn't have this expressed, and I would try to have a longer T too available too, but that T does not need to be as long at the space it passes through on the disc,
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huxleypig

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Post Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: New Disk Detainer Subject -Picking Chinese Locks

rai wrote:Ive been making tools for these, and manuvering the T pick through the disc pack is difficult sometimes, you unset a disc sometimes to move to the next

I have decided to make some of the T picks shorter and thinner,

consider two discs one set at 0 and the other at 90 degrees, if you look through them, the open space is a square defined by the openings in the two discs

now picture a T that is short enough to pass through diagonally but still can engage the discs, make it thin and almost knife edge at the ends

like this () ()

when this is turned diagonally it can pass two severly crossed discs. this is my latest thoughts, some tools I made earlier in the week didn't have this expressed, and I would try to have a longer T too available too, but that T does not need to be as long at the space it passes through on the disc,


Rai, another approach is to keep the shape of the T head the same as it was originally but slim the width of it down so that it can be rotated to any position by moving in the space between the discs. This is what the Abus Granit pick does because of the problem you highlight with disturbing set discs.

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