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Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Wed May 22, 2013 7:50 amby huxleypig
I like the point regarding picking non front driver discs with a front tensioning tool but what I don't get is if the first disc is not used to drive the lock then how can it be used to tension the rest? It's not turning the plug, or trying to turn the plug.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Wed May 22, 2013 11:56 amby escher7
huxleypig wrote:I like the point regarding picking non front driver discs with a front tensioning tool but what I don't get is if the first disc is not used to drive the lock then how can it be used to tension the rest? It's not turning the plug, or trying to turn the plug.
Watch the second video. If I understand it correctly, he uses the first disk to create the tension by turning it all the way to the right with the tensioner. This is the same as if it were a front driver, except that when he is finished, that front disk will be off by the amount of the cut. That is why he then moves the pick to a zero cut to create a different tension point, simultaneously using the tensioner to back off the front disk to set it. Once set, the pressure from the pick on a zero cut will turn the plug.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Wed May 22, 2013 5:56 pmby huxleypig
escher7 wrote:huxleypig wrote:I like the point regarding picking non front driver discs with a front tensioning tool but what I don't get is if the first disc is not used to drive the lock then how can it be used to tension the rest? It's not turning the plug, or trying to turn the plug.
Watch the second video. If I understand it correctly, he uses the first disk to create the tension by turning it all the way to the right with the tensioner. This is the same as if it were a front driver, except that when he is finished, that front disk will be off by the amount of the cut. That is why he then moves the pick to a zero cut to create a different tension point, simultaneously using the tensioner to back off the front disk to set it. Once set, the pressure from the pick on a zero cut will turn the plug.
Oh yeah, i get that part, I was just thinking how a none 0 disc can apply tension but I suppose the only thing that makes it a driver disc is the fact that the key cut puts it in a position where it is already fully rotated and so a bit more pushing will turn the plug.
I suppose that a none 0 disc turns the plug in exactly the same way and so applies tension in the same way except that the cut keeps the sidebar from dropping in when at 90 degrees and hence the turning back and using a different (0) disc to turn the plug.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Wed May 22, 2013 6:19 pmby huxleypig
Solomon - have you had any success picking the disklok pro or the abloy exec profile locks? I don't see why not, just more discs.
Also, have you had much success with the Abloy classic and other half moon shaped keyways? Because those Chinese disc detainer picks won't work and I have the Abloy pick and it is either not designed correctly or I just can't work out how to use it.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Wed May 22, 2013 7:23 pmby escher7
Hux:
I don't agree that the non-zero disk is fully rotated when it is set. When set properly it would be slightly left of full rotation. That's why Solomon seems to say that you don't set the first disk initially, but just turn it all the way to the right as if it were a zero disk thus creating tension. Then, at the end as you say, the tensioner turns it back to the left to set it and let the sidebar drop.
Maybe we are saying the same thing in the end and I am mis-reading your comment, as I think we both understand the end effect.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu May 23, 2013 3:36 amby MrWizard
Solomon
Excellent videos very clear instruction. Make it look easy, great job thanks for the time to produce them. I never tried to pick one of these and would not have thought to zero the discs all the way clockwise to start. I'll have to give a try now.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu May 23, 2013 11:01 amby huxleypig
escher7 wrote:Hux:
I don't agree that the non-zero disk is fully rotated when it is set. When set properly it would be slightly left of full rotation. That's why Solomon seems to say that you don't set the first disk initially, but just turn it all the way to the right as if it were a zero disk thus creating tension. Then, at the end as you say, the tensioner turns it back to the left to set it and let the sidebar drop.
Maybe we are saying the same thing in the end and I am mis-reading your comment, as I think we both understand the end effect.
Yes mate, we are saying the same thing! It is not fully rotated when set.
I nearly had a tool to pick my Abloy classic half moon profile lock last night. I was able to set discs and move freely inside the lock without disturbing other set discs. But then I noticed I was having trouble turning 2 of the discs at all. So I opened it up and 2 of them have really annoying cuts where the key never even touches, like so:
So back to the drawing board for the pick head. It will involve changing the tensioner too because that sits on one of the grooves either side of the mini half moon and I'll need to be able to access both of those in order to rotate the (owl) disc. At the moment the other discs turn fine because there is no mini half moon so the pick head is pushing against flat metal.
Does anybody know why that damned mini half moon is there? To frustrate picking?
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu May 23, 2013 6:19 pmby GWiens2001
That is exactly why it is there. Most, if not all, of the commercial picks have a problem with the anti-pick discs.
Gordon
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu May 23, 2013 8:44 pmby keymaster1053
I have the same tool solomon uses in these vids, but the tip of mine fell off, before I could even use it!!! prolly chinese crap. it didn't cost much. does anyone know how much a good one of those picks usually goes for?
Jim.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu May 23, 2013 11:32 pmby escher7
keymaster1053 wrote:I have the same tool solomon uses in these vids, but the tip of mine fell off, before I could even use it!!! prolly chinese crap. it didn't cost much. does anyone know how much a good one of those picks usually goes for?
Jim.
I have the Chinese one and even after I thinned the pick it is still plenty strong.
Walker locksmiths shows two variations here:
http://www.walkerlocksmiths.co.uk/padlo ... iner-picks.
You can get the cheap one from Chinese sites for around $7. The other one is around $50.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Tue May 28, 2013 1:18 pmby elbowmacaroni
keymaster1053 wrote:I have the same tool solomon uses in these vids, but the tip of mine fell off, before I could even use it!!! prolly chinese crap. it didn't cost much. does anyone know how much a good one of those picks usually goes for?
Jim.
Hey there,
When you say the tip fell off, was it the tip and the thin post it's on or did the tip fall off the thin post? If the former, then you can just put it back and then tighten down the set screw... Most of the cheapo chinese disc detainer picks seem to have that post not properly secured out of the box.
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Tue May 28, 2013 7:46 pmby keymaster1053
elbowmacaroni wrote:keymaster1053 wrote:I have the same tool solomon uses in these vids, but the tip of mine fell off, before I could even use it!!! prolly chinese crap. it didn't cost much. does anyone know how much a good one of those picks usually goes for?
Jim.
Hey there,
When you say the tip fell off, was it the tip and the thin post it's on or did the tip fall off the thin post? If the former, then you can just put it back and then tighten down the set screw... Most of the cheapo chinese disc detainer picks seem to have that post not properly secured out of the box.
No the tip actually fell off the post. :/ cheep shit from china.
lol
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:39 pmby Glens_1999
I just got my pick set like the one in the video and I have an alloy lock but the keyway is too small to admit the pick. Can I just file it down a little so it will fit? Also what are those other brands of locks that are in the video, and where can i get them? It would be better to start on something easier.
Great video. Really explains it nicely and a great accent!
Thanks all for the great knowledge.
Glen
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:04 pmby AULockpicker
Glens_1999 wrote:I just got my pick set like the one in the video and I have an alloy lock but the keyway is too small to admit the pick. Can I just file it down a little so it will fit? Also what are those other brands of locks that are in the video, and where can i get them? It would be better to start on something easier.
Great video. Really explains it nicely and a great accent!
Thanks all for the great knowledge.
Glen
I had to file the tip of mine down just a tad because it was too wide to fit keyway. I also had to narrow the width of the tip down because it was wider than the cut in the key, I filed it down to the same size as cut in the key, after these minor modifications it worked fine.
Almost forgot, the chap who said the tip had fallen off the wire...Could it not be resoldered to the wire?
Re: Disc detainer locks - tips & tricks [VIDEO]
Posted:
Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:34 pmby keymaster1053
I suppose it could be soldered, but it wasn't originally, it was just pressed on. and I've only done electronics soldering myself.
Jim.