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Antique Safe - help Identify

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cycletrak1

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Post Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:06 pm

Antique Safe - help Identify

I everyone. I joined awhile ago and am just now trying to put into practice things I've learned from this site.

I am in the process of trying to open the antique safe using the "safe cracking for everyone"


Wondering if anyone can provide any info, like age, type lock and maker of safe. Or anything else you think mighf prove useful.

I uploaded pics..... I hope they upload!

Thank you for any help.

Cycletrak1
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MartinHewitt

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Post Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:26 pm

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Well, what can you feel?
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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bitbuster

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Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:57 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Appears to be a Baum safe. Lock may be Baum's version of the Yale OB.
"This squid is so undercooked I can still hear it telling Sponge Bob to fuck off."-----Gordon Ramsay
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cycletrak1

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Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

I believe I have found the number for the 3rd wheel (76)... That's as far as I've got so far. Having trouble with the Graph #2 AR. Not hearing clicks so I may be doing something not quite right.

I spin right 4 times to zero then turn left to 76 (my number) . Then turn right to hear clicks. Should the clicks start sometime after passing the zero or could there be clicks between 76 and zero? I tried a different number on the graph, replacing zero with 5 as an example, still no click. I must be doing something wrong.

Or am I supposed to be listening for clicks as I turn to 76?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cycletrak1
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cycletrak1

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Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:15 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

bitbuster wrote:Appears to be a Baum safe. Lock may be Baum's version of the Yale OB.


Thank you for that info!

Does anyone have a list of standard combinations that would come with this lock that I could try?
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00247

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Post Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Looks like bitbuster nailed it.

Rounded outside corners, rounded door corners, shape of the wheel assemblies, and most of all the shape of the handle, all match. Here is one just like it. (online picture)

BaumXsafe.jpg
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Squelchtone

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Post Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:34 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

cycletrak1 wrote:I believe I have found the number for the 3rd wheel (76)... That's as far as I've got so far. Having trouble with the Graph #2 AR. Not hearing clicks so I may be doing something not quite right.

I spin right 4 times to zero then turn left to 76 (my number) . Then turn right to hear clicks. Should the clicks start sometime after passing the zero or could there be clicks between 76 and zero? I tried a different number on the graph, replacing zero with 5 as an example, still no click. I must be doing something wrong.

Or am I supposed to be listening for clicks as I turn to 76?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cycletrak1


Why do you think you should be hearing "clicks" ? To me, the idea of hearing clicks when turning a safe dial has been a product of old movies, tv shows, and what the public thinks a safe lock is supposed to sound like. Usually turning a dial is just silence followed maybe by the sound of metal wheels grinding gently against each other like a train wheel skidding across a train track. There is no click-click-click-click-klonk! and the handle suddenly turns and door flies open. You may hear a "ting" noise when the pins on the wheels hit the fly of the adjacent wheel in order to pick it up and start turning it.

Squelchtone
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MartinHewitt

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Post Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:50 pm

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

That is what you are about to expect in your safe: viewtopic.php?p=118054#p118054
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:45 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Hmmm. Always a difficult topic to convey... both for you and for us.
As best you can, tryn' expand upon what you've seen and felt so far.
The more details the better.

cycletrak1 wrote:*I believe I have found the number for the 3rd wheel (76)*... That's as far as I've got so far. Having trouble with the Graph #2 AR. Not hearing clicks so I may be doing something not quite right.

For example *this* could be several possibilities in my mind;
- Maybe you have indeed found wheel 3's gate.
- Maybe you've found w1's gate but are calling it w3.
Or, a more likely scenario - you have not found a gate for a wheel,
but have instead located your contact area (ie. the drive cam's gate).

Again, if you can, tryn' elaborate as to what led you to conclude this (76)?
What wheel action did you take? ie. Which wheel(s) & in what direction(s)?
What exactly are you feeling and/or hearing in the area of 76? etc.
Any and all details will help provoke better advice.

cycletrak1 wrote:*I spin right 4 times to zero then turn left to 76 (my number)* . Then turn right to hear clicks. Should the clicks start sometime after passing the zero or could there be clicks between 76 and zero? I tried a different number on the graph, replacing zero with 5 as an example, still no click. I must be doing something wrong.

So *here*... what you've done is parked all 3 wheels at 0, then brought ONLY the drive cam to 76.
When you did this, are you feeling/hearing anything at 76? If so, this is the drive cam's gate.
Try moving the dial lightly back-and-forth around the 76 area. What do you feel/hear?
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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cycletrak1

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Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:05 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

MartinHewitt wrote:That is what you are about to expect in your safe: https://keypicking.com/viewtopic.php?p=118054#p118054


Thank you for the link Martin!
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cycletrak1

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Posts: 9

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Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:10 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Oldfast wrote:Hmmm. Always a difficult topic to convey... both for you and for us.
As best you can, tryn' expand upon what you've seen and felt so far.
The more details the better.

cycletrak1 wrote:*I believe I have found the number for the 3rd wheel (76)*... That's as far as I've got so far. Having trouble with the Graph #2 AR. Not hearing clicks so I may be doing something not quite right.

For example *this* could be several possibilities in my mind;
- Maybe you have indeed found wheel 3's gate.
- Maybe you've found w1's gate but are calling it w3.
Or, a more likely scenario - you have not found a gate for a wheel,
but have instead located your contact area (ie. the drive cam's gate).

Again, if you can, tryn' elaborate as to what led you to conclude this (76)?
What wheel action did you take? ie. Which wheel(s) & in what direction(s)?
What exactly are you feeling and/or hearing in the area of 76? etc.
Any and all details will help provoke better advice.

cycletrak1 wrote:*I spin right 4 times to zero then turn left to 76 (my number)* . Then turn right to hear clicks. Should the clicks start sometime after passing the zero or could there be clicks between 76 and zero? I tried a different number on the graph, replacing zero with 5 as an example, still no click. I must be doing something wrong.

So *here*... what you've done is parked all 3 wheels at 0, then brought ONLY the drive cam to 76.
When you did this, are you feeling/hearing anything at 76? If so, this is the drive cam's gate.
Try moving the dial lightly back-and-forth around the 76 area. What do you feel/hear?


Oldfast, thank you for explaining.
I was following Dagger's "Safecracking for Everyone" for manipulation
I found the contact area by turning the wheel 4x to the left and stopped at 0.
I then slowly turned the wheel right to listen for noise. I call them clicks. (I was using a stethoscope to listen, I'm working on trying to obtain a mic/amp etc.) They are very faint. Found one at 55 and 72.

I repeated that step 3x to make sure. (2x with eyes closed to concentrate on listening) and I heard them in the same place each time. I was assuming this was a contact area. I didn't hear or feel any other faint "clicks" other than those 2. The clicks also did not move when I rocked them back and forth, they stayed right on those numbers.

I then turned the wheel 4x to the left and stopped at #10 (I know you are supposed to do every 2.5 but I did 10 instead)
I then slowly turned the wheel right to listen for the noise. I then graphed the number of both of the points that I heard the noise.

I reset the wheel each time (turning 4x left) and continued on with different numbers, marking down the numbers where I heard the faint noise. I then found where the 55 graph went down and the 72 graph went up to "meet" each other. They both met at 75 and 77.5, they were not offset. The middle of those two numbers is 76. That's how I came up with the possible number of 76 for the combo.

I did the low test and hi test using 76 to try to see which wheel it was. It showed as wheel 3.

Now I was looking for the "right" hand number. So turned wheel right 4x to zero, then left to 76 and then turned right to listen for noise. I don't hear those same faint "clicks" for the contact area. I do hear loud ratcheting type sound with click, click, click, of what I assume is it is picking up a wheel as it also is harder to turn the wheel. Then there is silence, as I continue turning right I hear another loud ratcheting type sound with click, click, click which may be another wheel?

When turning right I hear other faint clicks but when it's rocked back and forth, the click moves to the next number each time for 3 or 4 numbers then it's quiet. The clicks I heard looking for the "left" contact area, where I initial found the 55 and 72, those clicks did not move when I rocked them back and forth. They stayed put. So when I was turning right, as an example if I heard the faint click at 25 (a made up number for trying to explain this) as I was turning right, I would rock it back and forth and the noise I heard would move to 24, rock it again and it moves to 23, rock it again it would move to 22, then it would be quiet again.

When turning right on the wheel, between 60-70 it does not turn smoothly. Feels like its catching or dragging?

I hope I did a better job of explaining.

Thank you for for your patients and trying to help!

Cycletrak1
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MartinHewitt

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Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:15 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

Safe cracking for everyone is a good starting point. The lock in your safe is looking very different, but manipulation works the same.

From how I understood your description I am unsure if you did understand the principle of manipulation from this book.

The first step could be to count the number of wheels in the lock. I think it is pretty sure that there are three code wheels. So we probably can skip that.

So step 1 is to find the contact points. I think you did that well. So left contact point (LCP) is 55 and right CP is 72. These are the locations where the lock talks to you by how these points shift. 55 and 72 or 55 1/2 and 71 3/8 or 54 7/8 and 72 1/4. Any other sounds will probably not be helpful for you.

Steps 2 to n are testing the code wheels with graphs like this: download/file.php?id=17067&mode=view This is example the LCP is around 98 and the RCP around 9. If you did such graphs it is better to discuss this if you show them to us.
In case you wonder ... Martin Hewitt is a fictional detective in stories by Arthur Morrison:
Martin Hewitt, Investigator Chronicles of Martin Hewitt
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cycletrak1

Newbie

Posts: 9

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Post Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:26 am

Re: Antique Safe - help Identify

MartinHewitt wrote:Safe cracking for everyone is a good starting point. The lock in your safe is looking very different, but manipulation works the same.

From how I understood your description I am unsure if you did understand the principle of manipulation from this book.

The first step could be to count the number of wheels in the lock. I think it is pretty sure that there are three code wheels. So we probably can skip that.

So step 1 is to find the contact points. I think you did that well. So left contact point (LCP) is 55 and right CP is 72. These are the locations where the lock talks to you by how these points shift. 55 and 72 or 55 1/2 and 71 3/8 or 54 7/8 and 72 1/4. Any other sounds will probably not be helpful for you.

Steps 2 to n are testing the code wheels with graphs like this: download/file.php?id=17067&mode=view This is example the LCP is around 98 and the RCP around 9. If you did such graphs it is better to discuss this if you show them to us.


Thank you. When we go back up north (where the safe is), I'll grab a pic of the Graph and upload it.

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