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Feed back requested A machining experiment

Would precut lockpick blanks as described be of any benefit to a pick maker

Sorry I don't think it would work
1
4%
Yes I would want some
15
54%
Not for me but newbies might like it
12
43%
 
Total votes : 28
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Magic1

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Post Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:06 am

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

It's late on a Saturday evening, when all the lucky people in the world are supposed to be out and enjoying themselves. Some of us do not have that freedom, so we flaunt the pretension, and post anyway. Just to fill in my evening I would like to make a couple of suggestions. The first is that any shape of pick can be screen printed direct onto the steel. Take a look at .....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/moonshadow ... inting.htm

..... and that will give you the basic idea. If you want any more detailed info just PM me. For the second part I have no experience in etching steel, as all my work has been etching copper. However I do expect the etch to leave rough edges which can be removed by ball or tumble milling them. In the simple case, the etched picks are placed in a rotating drum partially filled with an abrasive element. It could be small round stones for example, or even sand. A vibrational action speeds the process up and is often used to 'polish' materials as different as stone and steel.

My final observation is a repeat of some earlier comments, in that I think the form of the tip of the tool is the important thing and not the handle. Wiser men than me may say that the torsion wrench is more important than the pick and I will not question that. For myself I came to the conclusion that I wanted a handle on every pick that was, 'full' and so comfortable, that I could forget about it, and just sit back and listen to what it was telling me. I guess that seems to separate the handle from the business end of the pick. For the pick handle I want comfort, instant orientation and feedback. I have been joking about picking in the dark in the past, but a good tool has to make that possible for me.

So on one hand we need the working end of the tool to suit the needs of the lock ..... and the handle to suit you. One way of separating the two requirements is to consider the two elements separately. We have the blade of the tool and the handle. One thing I am suggesting is that instead of concentrating on the handle, you instead aim at producing the perfect working ends of the pick. This amounts to a much smaller area, into which you can get the profiles of a much larger range of pick profiles, ie in a credit card sized area you could get perhaps 30 pick tool ends. Let the punter decide on their own 'perfect' handle that suites them.

My own pick tool requirements, so far, have been a little weird because all of the cylinder locks I bought have the same Yale Y2 type key way and that meant, much smaller tool ends. It also makes for several extra bonus profiles that could be included on the etched product.

So with all due respect I suggest that you do not drop this idea, but find a process to get what you want at the right price.
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Magic1

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Post Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:36 am

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

The cold light of dawn !. One way of doing this would be to make up a positive film of what one wants to etch. You simply tale the profile sheet and print it onto an ink jet over head projector transparency sheet. In UK they cost about 50 pence a sheet. I usually pass the sheet through the printer two or three times to get a nice dense black image. Make sure you wait about 15 minutes between prints to allow the ink to dry properly. You now have the 'positive ' to photographically impose the image onto the photo emulsion coated screen. The screen is then exposed to UV light and then all of the soft emulsion washed out of the screen mesh ... and you are ready to start printing the images direct onto the steel sheet.

The steel sheet needs to have the printing on both sides, so you have to figure out some way of indexing the sheet, so that when you turn it over, it is in the exact position to mirror the image on the other side of the sheet. Two pins on the screen base board will do this.

Inks used for screen printing are more like a paste. I tried normal acrylic artists paint and after drying that survived a 45 minute immersion in concentrated ferric acid. Once you have made the screen it should last for several thousand prints, before needing re-coating.
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aka.decoy

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Post Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:42 am

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

abroxis wrote:If I could afford to have custom dies cut and have them stamped


-Hey abroxis, what's come of this thread? Are you still making those blanks?

-Also, when you say "custom dies" and have them stamped what do you mean? What do you need to do this?
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina."

-Ron Burgundy
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TOWCH

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Location: Oregon

Post Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:43 pm

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

I have two recommendations:
I would imagine it would be much more cost effective for you to have a die cutter machined from 2 blocks of A2 tool steel about the size of a deck of cards.

Brickstrap is considered by many to be a reasonable material. Hacksaw blades aren't my favorite, but they work ok.

MSC can probably sell you spring steel in whatever thickness you need.

My new milling machine is A2 capable, if anyone wants to spearhead this project: PM me on LP101(I don't know how often I'll be checking my account here.)

My other suggestion would be plastic handles that epoxy on to windshield wiper inserts or streetsweeper bristles.

The second suggestion is probably more profitable. I don't know how fast spring steel would dull A2, but molds are pretty durable.

Likewise: PM me on lp101 if interested. I can CAD/CAM some pretty fancy molds on my friends CNC.

You may be able to electro machine some prototypes by using a rustoleum mask and accelerating the rusting process with electricity/water. Never tried it but it seems like it would work.

Cheers,
TOWCH
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TOWCH

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Post Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:53 pm

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

aka.decoy wrote:
abroxis wrote:If I could afford to have custom dies cut and have them stamped


-Hey abroxis, what's come of this thread? Are you still making those blanks?

-Also, when you say "custom dies" and have them stamped what do you mean? What do you need to do this?


Depending on material thickness: a shop press or even bench vise should be capable of shearing the material.(can't remember shear strength of spring steel off the top of my head)

The dies would be male and female like a hole punch. They would dull quickly unless made from tool steel. A2 has the benefit of dimensional stability during heat treating so depending on the cutter clearance it should be possible to machine, then harden, with no finish grinding. In theory.

A2 is a tough material so you need a reasonably rigid machine to work with it at a decent speed. Sometimes you rough out this type of thing via sinker EDM but it shouldn't be necessary in this case.

I haven't done a ton of tool and die work so if I welcome corrections if I'm mistaken on any points.
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s1deshowmick

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Post Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

All the tech stuff is way beyond me, but like most other things on the market, if they are marketed in the right manner, people will buy it. Sometimes it takes a while for an idea to catch on sometimes not.
If you can't be good, Be good at it.

http://au.youtube.com/S1DESHOWMICK
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geardog32

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Post Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:48 pm

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

salt water and a DC source and your soon to be pick on the anode. very easy
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aka.decoy

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Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:59 pm

Re: Feed back requested A machining experiment

TOWCH wrote:
aka.decoy wrote:
abroxis wrote:If I could afford to have custom dies cut and have them stamped


-Hey abroxis, what's come of this thread? Are you still making those blanks?

-Also, when you say "custom dies" and have them stamped what do you mean? What do you need to do this?


Depending on material thickness: a shop press or even bench vise should be capable of shearing the material.(can't remember shear strength of spring steel off the top of my head)

The dies would be male and female like a hole punch. They would dull quickly unless made from tool steel. A2 has the benefit of dimensional stability during heat treating so depending on the cutter clearance it should be possible to machine, then harden, with no finish grinding. In theory.

A2 is a tough material so you need a reasonably rigid machine to work with it at a decent speed. Sometimes you rough out this type of thing via sinker EDM but it shouldn't be necessary in this case.

I haven't done a ton of tool and die work so if I welcome corrections if I'm mistaken on any points.

Thanks, Towch.

I knew what was optimal, but was wondering what he felt he needed. :cool:

I personally prefer A6, but that's just a biased opinion. I don't think he'd be able rough out with a sinker EDM anyway, if he had access to those kind of goodies he should just stack a bunch of plates and WEDM in one deft move.

Not sure if he meant ordering the custom dies and stamping them himself, or ordering everything and receiving finished product.
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina."

-Ron Burgundy
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