FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

Defeating electronic padlocks ...

<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:24 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Why not chose bomb disposal for a short career ?
<<

bouncer965

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 668

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Location: Cork, Ireland

Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Magic1 wrote:Why not chose bomb disposal for a short career ?



Not a hope ....i wouldnt get paid :lol: :lol: :lol:
[“A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.”.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bouncer965
<<

Riff

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 368

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:16 am

Location: South USA

Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

And WHY did I recieve a PM telling me that you left me NEGATIVE feedback Magic1????? Are you fucking serious????? not cool man....not cool.. I really dont think I said anything in this post to deserve that..............Since you have disabled PM I have to ask you here. I'd like to know why. Thanks. Riff
<<

darklighterz7611

Newbie

Posts: 1

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm

Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:55 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Solomon wrote:"Operation

Insert the key and turn clockwise to release the shackle and re-fit the shackle with the groove near to the key port. The lock will beep to indicate that the alarm is active. The padlock will be alarmed after 30 seconds. Turn the key anti-clockwise to lock the unit. The first time the alarm is triggered the unit will provide a triple beep warning. This allows you to unlock it without setting off the alarm. The next trigger will cause an alarm. To Turn Off The Alarm Unlock the padlock and remove the shackle."

So, if you move it to get at the keyway, it will perform a warning beep. If you move it once more, it's alarm time... I imagine picking would set it off, so you'd need to pick the lock by the time the triple beep has finished. Can't see that happening... but the circuit seems to be completed by the shackles contact with the padlock body. All you need is a way to interrupt the circuit somehow.


Tie some fine fishing wire to the lock and twitch it every 10mins untill the alarm has been disabled by the user.

Or could you attach a powerfull energy source to the shackle and padlock and try to overload and burnout the circuit/fuses etc???
<<

elbowmacaroni

User avatar

Site Owner

Posts: 1353

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:28 pm

Location: Florida

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:50 am

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Car battery powered Tesla Coil... then pick it.
"Cave ab homine unius libri" - Beware of anyone who has just one book

(2014.02.09 - 23:26:03) huxleypig: i freaking love cream
(2014.02.09 - 23:27:11) huxleypig: hey, come on, cream is nice
(2014.02.09 - 23:27:37) huxleypig: aww, i suddenly feel very sick

(23:37:46) LocksmithArmy: you should see my school girl outfit
(23:37:50) LocksmithArmy: wait... what

(13:19:50) xeo: that chick will never be satisfied by a real dick
(13:19:54) NNFAK: I would man...

(22:59:49) PhoneMan: how do you let a forum die if users keep using it? kill the servers?

May those who love us, love us; and those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if He doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles so we'll know them by their limping

If someone had prince albert in a can, does that mean they'd have a killer codpiece?

(00:52:02) WolfSpring: elbow could sell a sandbox to an egyptian
<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:14 am

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

"The purpose of the liquid nitrogen is to freeze the bomb to deactivate the explosive material contained in it. Moreover, if the bomb is activated by a triggering device powered by batteries, for example, the liquid nitrogen freezes all chemical activity in the batteries and thereby prevents the bomb from being activated. "

United States Patent 3721201

CO2 works as well and has the advantage of being readily available in fire extinguisher form.

@Riff

Deviation.
<<

bouncer965

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 668

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Location: Cork, Ireland

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Magic1 wrote:"The purpose of the liquid nitrogen is to freeze the bomb to deactivate the explosive material contained in it. Moreover, if the bomb is activated by a triggering device powered by batteries, for example, the liquid nitrogen freezes all chemical activity in the batteries and thereby prevents the bomb from being activated. "

United States Patent 3721201

CO2 works as well and has the advantage of being readily available in fire extinguisher form.

@Riff

Deviation.


I use the Keyboard cleaner aerosols ......turn them upside down and then press and it freezes whatever it makes contact with.

Iuse it for removing dents in car bodywork. Heat the metal that is to be worked on with a hairdryer ......then freeze it and the dent pops out......wont work on creased metal though.
[“A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.”.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bouncer965
<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

I was just wondering if it were possible to pick the frozen lock ?. With liquid nitrogen maybe one doesn't have to ... simply hit it with a hammer and it will disintegrate because of metal embrittlement. Looking at those two small screws, maybe a bolt cropper would chop the bottom section of the lock off while it is still frozen, looks like it is only held on by those two screws and they should shear easily ?. I wonder if it would shim frozen ....
<<

KokomoLock

User avatar

Professor Emeritus Of Lockpickology and Smithery

Posts: 1107

Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 7:23 pm

Location: Indiana

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:42 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Don't know if this will help you guys out or not. About half way down the page there is a PDF you can click on to see some pictures of it. Patent info for a similar alarmed padlock.


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5727405.html
<<

HallisChalmers

Lord Emeritus of Keypicking HallisChalmers

Posts: 2070

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:46 pm

Location: Hell

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:36 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Why not use an electronic stun gun - one of those 50,000 volt jobbies - the voltage will fry every diode and cap in the circuit board. Then you just pick it.

Just a guess on my part.
<<

cowbite

Familiar Face

Posts: 95

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:58 pm

Location: Sky Valley, Ga

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:37 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

bouncer965 wrote:
Solomon wrote:
What about giving it a shock with a megameter ?????


Or stun gun.
Image
MCSE: Security | CompTIA: Security
<<

Riff

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 368

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:16 am

Location: South USA

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:03 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Magic1 wrote:"The purpose of the liquid nitrogen is to freeze the bomb to deactivate the explosive material contained in it. Moreover, if the bomb is activated by a triggering device powered by batteries, for example, the liquid nitrogen freezes all chemical activity in the batteries and thereby prevents the bomb from being activated. "

United States Patent 3721201

CO2 works as well and has the advantage of being readily available in fire extinguisher form.

@Riff

Deviation.


Ok, I'm going to give my opinion. I think bouncer had a great idea to submerge the lock in a cup of water. I think that would greatly dampen/shortout the siren. That would of course ruin your lock though. Which would suck. Now there might be a problem if there is not a delay from the time you touch the lock/or it is mounthed in such a way that you cannot submerge it. If that was the case that thing would start screaming as soon as you touched it. I would try what a couple of the other guys suggested also and hit it with a stun gun. But if that doesnt basically fry the electronics, well you will have a very loud lock real fast. You keep talking about liquid nitrogen, and yes while this will break just about anything on earth, But how are you going to get your hands on that stuff. I would I assume it is highly regulated since it can be so dangerous. As you know if you mess up for just a second you can literally freeze a finger or your whole hand off. At any rate it looks like a really cool little lock. I'm just a little skeptical about the real-world use of it. It seems like anytime it got bumped, by the wind, rain, riding in your vehicle, ect. you would be faced with an ear piercing noise.

As far as the negative feedback, I think I need to say something. I did not in any way try to offend or disrespect you. I mean suggestions were being made of an EMP, another C4, and I know they wasnt serious. Nobody was making fun of you. We were just having fun. There is a difference. Besides that I really dont see how I "deviated" from the topic. One member made an offhand comment about putting it on your back door to have some sort of alarm system. I commented that was actually a good idea....I REALLY thought that was a good idea.....Is that REALLY off topic????
Besides all of that you have to understand, leaving someone negative feedback is pretty serious in my opinion. That could stick with me forever, calling my integrity/honesty/word into question. In turn giving me problems with trades, buying and selling thing here on KP. I dont think I or anyone else deserves that stigma for making what you consider a Deviation of topic. Anyway, I have no enemies here and I'd like to keep it that way. SO, I hope you understand that I was not trying to be disrespectful to you in any way. Besides that it's all good. Have a good day. Riff :mrgreen:
<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Seems I lost a post.

The data sheet for the lock says it is waterproof and 'weather proof', whatever the latter means. One of the reasons we do not drop 'suspect' packages into a bucket of water anymore, is because the water often activated the electronics in the device and it blew up, before the water had any other effect.

We have a similar problem with the stun gun idea . The lock is designed to be normally 'off' with very little current flowing in the circuit. If one of several things happen it cause a current to flow into the gate of the SCR and that triggers the alarm. Now in this case we know from the spec sheet that no digital electronics are used in the lock, so any voltages induced by a stun gun etc., can only trigger the device. However if it did contain a micro-processor it is true we can cause it to hang up or reset itself. I have done this hundreds of times using a kitchen piezoelectric gas lighting tool and it has a very small spark compared with a stun gun. Bearing in mind we were supposed to be brain storming, the EMP and Telsa suggestions were equally as valid.

Another possibility was to cut the lock in half using standard detonator cord as one might do with a suspect package. The problem here is one of speed since electrons can move so much faster than the detonator cord shock wave traveling relatively slowly at a few thousand feet per second. Yes it has worked with some devices using the cadmium di-sulphide light detectors, but only because of an effect called 'Crystal Lattice Latch-up', whereby it takes a finite time for the CDS detector to change it's resistance and therefore the shock wave has time to do it's job, before the electronics work.

I do wonder how effective the alarm sounder is. It i is very small and that in turn means it probably emits a high audio frequency, probably around 4 Khz. Even if the device did emit a 110 db signal, the strength of that signal would drop off with distance and eventually fall under the ambient noise level. It also becomes more difficult for the ears to determine the direction of the sound at the higher frequencies ... which might cause a person to disregard it. No one in UK take any notice of alarms any more ... including the police. Old people with high frequency deafness would have problems hearing at distance too.

I think it is a useful device, but not as a lock Hi!. Some time ago I was asked to design a simple device to use as a perimeter alarm for the military, as they were still using beer cans with stones in them and a trip wire. Now someone did suggest a fishing line ... so why don't they turn the lock into an electronic perimeter alarm by using a fishing line trip 'wire' . Hmmm, I wonder if they would give me a freebie if I suggested that to the lock company......
<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Nothing ventured ... nothing gained !. I just emailed the company who manufacture this lock and suggested that they present me with one, in exchange for the perimeter alarm idea Hi!. I didn't mention anything about testing it to death !. :lol:
<<

Magic1

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 194

Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 pm

Location: Andover, UK

Post Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:57 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

This lock is beginning to bug me !. A specification sheet and a video can be found at .....

http://www.padlockalarm.com/
PreviousNext

Return to Awol's Research & Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware