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Defeating electronic padlocks ...

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Magic1

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:28 pm

Defeating electronic padlocks ...

I just posted a link to a padlock (In Banter) that sets off a built in 110 db alarm if the lock it subjected to vibration, touched or moved. It does raise the interesting question of how to defeat locks like this, with every day items. The R & D solution is thirty years old, anyone have any suggestions ?.

http://www.rapidonline.com/sku/Electric ... 46/43-3156
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ChicoSlim803

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

EMP
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bouncer965

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

ChicoSlim803 wrote:EMP


EMP??? Electro magnetic pulse???
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Riff

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:19 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

bouncer965 wrote:
ChicoSlim803 wrote:EMP


EMP??? Electro magnetic pulse???


LOL
Yea I think that's what he means.
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the lockpickkid

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

I want one for my tool locker in my carport, this would be a big theft deterent. As for defeating??? Well, tp pick it isn't easy and the alarm would go off, I would fill a beaker full of acid and carefully immerse what I could of the lock into it without moving it much, then the acid would eat up parts of the lock and hopefully tear up the electronics of it, then I would bolt cutter, and be gone!!

What do you think!!! LOL!
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bouncer965

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

the lockpickkid wrote:I want one for my tool locker in my carport, this would be a big theft deterent. As for defeating??? Well, tp pick it isn't easy and the alarm would go off, I would fill a beaker full of acid and carefully immerse what I could of the lock into it without moving it much, then the acid would eat up parts of the lock and hopefully tear up the electronics of it, then I would bolt cutter, and be gone!!

What do you think!!! LOL!


I think you got serious isssues and should seek help :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Steve

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:46 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

i would c4 the door

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loki

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

At -4 deg F, the battery falls below it's rated operating temp.
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Riff

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:02 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

the lockpickkid wrote:I want one for my tool locker in my carport, this would be a big theft deterent. As for defeating??? Well, tp pick it isn't easy and the alarm would go off, I would fill a beaker full of acid and carefully immerse what I could of the lock into it without moving it much, then the acid would eat up parts of the lock and hopefully tear up the electronics of it, then I would bolt cutter, and be gone!!

What do you think!!! LOL!


Hell KId, I'm not sure I would want one of these things...It would be a great theft deterent but damn, if it moves its gonna be loud. LOL
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Magic1

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:38 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Yes Loki,
Well done Sir !. The original research on this was done by a Frenchman in the late 70's I think. The ironic thing is that just about every African in the bush knows this too and when the sun comes up they take the batteries out of their radios etc and line them up in the sun. In extremely cold conditions people often wear their radio batteries under their protective clothing.

OK the new question is how quickly can the voltage of the battery in the lock be brought to zero or a negligible value, keywords might be 'cryogenic baths', 'cryogenic enclosures', coupled with 'dry cells'. Some electronic locks are powered by the battery in the key, but it is clear in the illustration, that there can be no battery in the keys, so it must be in the lock !.

I salute Chicoslim with his EMP suggestion. That suggestion leads to many other solutions.

Now a real R & D rat accepts nothing ... particularly authority. R & D rats are inquisitive and smart. They have to be because like real rats they have to survive. On an earlier posting bouncer965 stated his thoughts on this subject , now I think he understands what brain storming is all about. You simply say what comes into your mind and that is the rule of the game. Anyone who hesitates to say something, because it might seem stupid to someone else, has no place down the rabbit hole. Anyone who mocks anything that anyone else says, has no place down the rabbit hole.

Read what bouncer965 said about a noisy lock. He knows what he is talking about !. Ask your self if the lock manufacturers are really that stupid and not include an alarm delay on an attempted opening ?. Would they also not include an arming delay ?. It only takes an email to find out .... and considering the perceived incompetence of the average user, there may very well be a built in delay that can be exploited. How many of you have sent an email yet ?.
Last edited by Magic1 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Solomon

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

So, the alarm goes off with even the slightest touch? That's pretty crazy. I'd get one and hang it on the inside of the doorhandle, lol... so if someone tried to come in through the door they'd think I had a crazy alarm system. :mrgreen:

There must be some kind of delay though... these are designed for outdoor use, so if it goes off when moved a little with the wind for example it wouldn't be very practical. And obviously the user doesn't want to be deafened when he goes to open the padlock with his key, so there myst be at least a 2-3 second delay. So is this a mercury tilt switch or an actual shock sensor or how does it work? If the former, all you have to do is pick it without facing the cylinder towards yourself.
Last edited by Solomon on Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Magic1

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

"There must be some kind of delay though..."

If there isn't, it is going to be a failed product Hi!.
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Solomon

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

"Operation

Insert the key and turn clockwise to release the shackle and re-fit the shackle with the groove near to the key port. The lock will beep to indicate that the alarm is active. The padlock will be alarmed after 30 seconds. Turn the key anti-clockwise to lock the unit. The first time the alarm is triggered the unit will provide a triple beep warning. This allows you to unlock it without setting off the alarm. The next trigger will cause an alarm. To Turn Off The Alarm Unlock the padlock and remove the shackle."

So, if you move it to get at the keyway, it will perform a warning beep. If you move it once more, it's alarm time... I imagine picking would set it off, so you'd need to pick the lock by the time the triple beep has finished. Can't see that happening... but the circuit seems to be completed by the shackles contact with the padlock body. All you need is a way to interrupt the circuit somehow.
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Riff

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Solomon wrote:So, the alarm goes off with even the slightest touch? That's pretty crazy. I'd get one and hang it on the inside of the doorhandle, lol... so if someone tried to come in through the door they'd think I had a crazy alarm system. :mrgreen:


That's actually a pretty good idea solomon LOL :mrgreen:
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bouncer965

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Post Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:24 pm

Re: Defeating electronic padlocks ...

Solomon wrote:"Operation

Insert the key and turn clockwise to release the shackle and re-fit the shackle with the groove near to the key port. The lock will beep to indicate that the alarm is active. The padlock will be alarmed after 30 seconds. Turn the key anti-clockwise to lock the unit. The first time the alarm is triggered the unit will provide a triple beep warning. This allows you to unlock it without setting off the alarm. The next trigger will cause an alarm. To Turn Off The Alarm Unlock the padlock and remove the shackle."

So, if you move it to get at the keyway, it will perform a warning beep. If you move it once more, it's alarm time... I imagine picking would set it off, so you'd need to pick the lock by the time the triple beep has finished. Can't see that happening... but the circuit seems to be completed by the shackles contact with the padlock body. All you need is a way to interrupt the circuit somehow.


What about giving it a shock with a megameter ?????
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