Magnetic pick to aide in pin rotation?

[ChemicalRobot]

This is an idea I've been having for a few days now. I was thinking, since the pins in Medeco locks stick to magnets that maybe if a pick was made to be magnetic that you could grab onto and manipulate each pin with greater ease.

I have the parts to make an electromagnetic pick so I might be building one this weekend. I'm planning on a half-diamond style cut for the tip since they seem fair in rotating pins by themselves.

Has anybody tried this out?

EDIT: Just so we're clear, this is for rotation and not lifting.

[HallisChalmers]

How do you propose to selectively lift each pin individually? If the pins are magnetic - wouldn't you be lifting all pins in proximity to the electro-magnetic pick? Seems that a magnet would make the pin(s) stick to the pick.

When you are picking with a standard pick - you are always working against spring pressure that forces the pin stack past the shear line.

Secondly, manipulating electro-magnetic waves in such a compact space - and directional manner seems a little improbable.

Not putting your idea down - just asking questions.

[ChemicalRobot]

I'm not talking about lifting pins. This is for rotating only. You know, so the pin essentially sticks to your pick so you can rotate it easily. I'd assume lifting would be performed with a standard pick.

[Farmerfreak]

I believe that HallisChalmers point is that if the pick was magnetic and you went after the last pin in the lock. Then all the pins would be attracted to the pick blade, not just the tip. So it could be a possibility that when you try to turn the last pin, the rest of the pins may try to turn with it.

Something you should keep in mind is that not all Medeco pins have steel inserts. Putting steel inserts into the key pins probably started around ten years ago. I'm not sure exactly when, but that seems about right.

[barbarian]

The other problem would be that the pins are not that magnetic.

Try one and see. I think they are Nickel plated brass and the nickel is only very slightly magnetic. I tried a dozen pins just now and they won't lift their own weight. The magnet seems to stick a bit, but when you try to lift a pin out of your hand, you can see there is not much attractive force there.

The little half moon anti-drill pieces and the sidebar springs are the only really magnetic parts inside.

[ChemicalRobot]

Try one and see. I think they are Nickel plated brass and the nickel is only very slightly magnetic. I tried a dozen pins just now and they won't lift their own weight. The magnet seems to stick a bit, but when you try to lift a pin out of your hand, you can see there is not much attractive force there.

No, I tried this numerous times and the pin very very easily lifted itself from my palm. Maybe the magnet you're using just isn't very good. Well, even the magnet I'm using isn't good but it still pulled up fine. I've tried this with pins from two different biaxial mortise cylinders and one biaxial key in knob cylinder. The magnet I tested with is one of those weak little O-magnets where one pole is on the outside and the other is on the inside.

I believe that HallisChalmers point is that if the pick was magnetic and you went after the last pin in the lock. Then all the pins would be attracted to the pick blade, not just the tip. So it could be a possibility that when you try to turn the last pin, the rest of the pins may try to turn with it.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking about this earlier, too. But when the electromagnet polarizes the pick It's my hoping that the shaft itself will be enough of a dead zone to not affect the other pins. But who knows. I'm still going to try it so we'll see.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

[HallisChalmers]

I believe that HallisChalmers point is that if the pick was magnetic and you went after the last pin in the lock. Then all the pins would be attracted to the pick blade, not just the tip. So it could be a possibility that when you try to turn the last pin, the rest of the pins may try to turn with it.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking about this earlier, too. But when the electromagnet polarizes the pick It's my hoping that the shaft itself will be enough of a dead zone to not affect the other pins. But who knows. I'm still going to try it so we'll see.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

Ok, here is the problem as I see it: What you need is a magnet that is strong enough to manipulate specific pins - without the electromagnetic waves attracting the other pins. So in essence, you are looking for pick that generates a pin-thin electromagnetic wave to lift the pin - but not others, right?

Whew. I don't know if such a device can be constructed with simple electro-magnetism.

[ChemicalRobot]

Oh don't get me wrong, I won't be the least bit surprised it if fails, but I'm hoping that once the pin is rotated that the sidebar will hold it in place with enough power to overcome the magnet.

[magician59]

I wonder how many times T A Edison was told his light bulb wouldn't work. I say , go for it.

[barbarian]

OK I just dug apart two more Medeco's that I had ..

I have 26 pins total and 23 of them are pretty much non-magnetic. There are 3 of them that are very strongly magnetic..

I thought all the bottom pins were non magnetic... Did you say all your bottom pins were magnetic ?? I'm using one of those little neo magnets and the pins fly to it from about an inch away. Hard to get them off.

If all yours are magnetic and most of mine are not, I'm wondering if Medeco did this to frustrate just such an attack as you are trying.. Maybe the old pins vs. new pins are different. That would be a potential problem.

If Medeco specs are for a couple of non-magnetic pins to be in each lock, then it's a problem. We need some people to try their bottom pins and see if they are magnetic..

If you can build an electro magnet into the tip of a pick size tool, then I see this as being entirely possible. Turn the electro off and move it to the next spot, apply some tension and turn on the electro..

Just for pin rotation.. Maybe some type of tool that holds the pick accurately and allows you to be more precise than just holding a pick in your hand..

Very interesting...

[Riff]

From what I understand I think your biggest problem is going to be regulating how magnetic the pick becomes. I'm not an engineer not I'm not sure of the machanics of this idea. I assume it will involve a power source and a voltage regulator. You just might be able to find a happy medium. Like hallis was saying you are going to need the pick magnetised strong enough to stick to the target pins and not the others.....Might be kinda hard to find that fine line.....But go for it bro!!! Keep us updated.

[elbowmacaroni]

I believe that HallisChalmers point is that if the pick was magnetic and you went after the last pin in the lock. Then all the pins would be attracted to the pick blade, not just the tip. So it could be a possibility that when you try to turn the last pin, the rest of the pins may try to turn with it.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking about this earlier, too. But when the electromagnet polarizes the pick It's my hoping that the shaft itself will be enough of a dead zone to not affect the other pins. But who knows. I'm still going to try it so we'll see.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

Ok, here is the problem as I see it: What you need is a magnet that is strong enough to manipulate specific pins - without the electromagnetic waves attracting the other pins. So in essence, you are looking for pick that generates a pin-thin electromagnetic wave to lift the pin - but not others, right?

Whew. I don't know if such a device can be constructed with simple electro-magnetism.

Dude, he's only suggesting rotating the pins, not lifting them with the electromagnet. Hell to lift them with a magnet it's have to be from above the cylinder anyway and well, everything you're saying does apply there, and to rotating them as well, as the shaft of the electromagnetized pick would be radiating waves of electromagnetic force and would have to have at least some effect on the other pins as well. Also, you have to deal with residual magnetism on the pick after you turn off the juice. I don't honestly think there is any way for this to be fruitful, but nothing ventured, nothing gained right? But really, I can't see it working.

Regardless it's good to see people thinking about possibilities.