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Open Source Key Machine

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l0ckcr4ck3r

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Post Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:52 am

Open Source Key Machine

This is an idea i've been kicking around for a while. I know others have built their own in the past but i'd just like to get some input before i go much further. Its always best to get as many ideas from others before planning an open source project.

What I'm thinking about is a very simple X/Y table hooked up to either a PC/Laptop or driven directly from a GUI Arduino. you can the just bolt it down in front on your FB-200 or Ilco 008. Code machines are stupid money for what they actually are!

What id like to figure out, is being able to use off the shelf components, with little or no machining work required, so anyone can build one.

Right now I'm thinking of a Proxxon KT70 Table...

Image

a CNC conversion kit from ebay, NEMA 17 steppers....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proxxon-MF70-CNC-conversion-kit-for-Nema-17-stepper-motors-/271745840817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f455076b1

and then something like a grblsheild to drive it....

https://www.inventables.com/technologies/gshield

Cost would be $100 for the table, $100 for the steppers and driver, maybe $40 for a PSU and another $100 for the Arduino and Touchscreen. Total about $350.

Once built, it would be great to get some standard definition files for key types, just so you can select from a list and enter the bitting information and it generates all geometry and pulses directly and cuts the key.

Any ideas would be welcome and yeah there would be room in the future to mount a cutting head that could make angled cuts and maybe a tiny 300W spindle for Laser tracks... who knows ;-)
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elbowmacaroni

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Post Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:04 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Dude! AWESOME IDEA!

I have a couple suggestions to simplify the design and lower the cost...

First off, instead of getting just some random arduino and a motor and sensor shield and then having to code it all. You can get a printrboard (or any other 3d printer controller board that it of the reprap baseline) and it already has the stepper controller headers, sensor headers and is preloaded with code and it understands and applies gcode which can be used for additive or subtractive manufacturing!

As for the spindle for laser cuts, it could be used to do warding and and sidebar codes too! And nicely, NEMA 17 steppers aren't terribly expensive either!

Can't wait to see how this all goes!

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MrAnybody

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Post Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:44 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Oh my, oh my :drool: A glorious idea. I'm really looking forward to seeing this take shape.
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pick'n n grin'n

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Post Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Hi there l0ckcr4ck3r,
I'm trying to do the same thing only using my drill press to turn the cutter.

Hey Elbow,
Great suggestion. I have the xy vice that l0ckcr4ck3r shows in his post. It's designed to have the human interface
wheels removed and stepper motor mounts put in their place. I have seen the mounts on Ebay as well as the stepper
motors you suggest. I would just have to figure out how to attach a stepper motor mount to the drill press. Then,
of course, the calibration for the drill press movement would be quite different than for the X and Y movement of
the Vise.
Also, I'd like to find a cooling jet, pump and plumbing like that used on high dollar milling machines. I have a few ideas
on how to capture the fluid and either recurculate it if possible or just hold it for disposal.
What are your thoughts on these ideas?
Do you have any specific web sites/stores where a person could take a look and purchase the stuff you suggest?

I live in a small north Idaho town but I did find one hackerspace type group of web programers. Haven't talked to
any of them yet. You sound knowledgeable so I'd love to hear more specific ideas if you don't mind sharing.
Thanks a lot,
Rick
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ckc123

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Post Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:46 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

if you want.. I'll share the source code I made for mine..

http://www.burke-consulting.net/Arduino/KeyCodeCutter/
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bylocks

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Post Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:29 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Very nice these ideas for a cutting fluid system for your homemade device. But it is really necessary? I have never seen a key machine with a cutting fluid system.

Am I missing something?
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Rlhelms57

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Post Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:56 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

This is very interesting. I have a foley 200 with a home made space micrometer on it. I milled the arm from some aluminum stock, and bought the mic on eBay for $18. So far I have figured out the cuts settings for Schlage and Kwikset. Both work very well. I need to do the math in a few more key types. It would be so cool to have this stored in a system and recall able.

I look forward to seeing this progress.
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Rlhelms57

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Post Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:56 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

I have to say the old foley does cut a really good key by code, and once you do a few it gets real quick.
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l0ckcr4ck3r

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Post Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:20 am

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, thats exactly what i was hoping for!

Elbow, you are correct, it doesnt need anything too fancy.... i'd even go as far as to say we wouldn't need to even implement GCode on it. Its yet another layer to extrapolate to. Select Key type, enter bitting information, then a series of vertices can be generated. Do we then want to generate GCode from that, only to have to reinterpret back again to step pulses? I don't know the answer to this one yet, it might need some more thought. If the hardware is cheap enough, it might make sense. Alternatively we just use some Driver chips or driver modules from pololu and calculate everything on the arduino.

I do like the idea of having a stand alone unit, with no additional PCs, Android devices etc, IMHO its just not needed. I'm not sure if any of you have worked with 4Dsystems Inteligent display modules yet? Its freaking simple to develop great looking GUI touch interface for Arduino or other m/c platforms, you can take a look here if you want, mouser sells them for pretty good prices - especially the 2.8" and 3.2" models

http://www.4dsystems.com.au/product/uLCD_35DT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1TPs6dI11k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGD-TUgciQM

There will also need to be some limit switches for homing and maybe a relay to start/stop the slaved cutting machine. As for the MK II version, i think we have some similar ideas.... you can mount several clamp blocks across the table for different operations. But yeah, i foresee clamping an SC4 vertically and turning it into a primus blank in about a minute using the cutting disc. I'm also thinking about a Z axis with maybe 2 inches of travel, that we mount the cutting wheel and spindle to.... the disc cutter can be rotated for angled cuts, with a pivot line in line with the disc obviously and a tiny ER spindle for the laser cuts!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-CNC-Spindle-Motor-Kits-PWM-Speed-Controller-Mount-Bracket-/111558709140?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f96acf94

But lets get the first version made and documented and then look at other things later ;-)


Rick, AKA pick'n n grin'n sure ill share what i'll be working on.. its open source after all! if you have any info for this, feel free to stick it up here, or you can email me direct at l0ckcr4ck3r@gmail.com ill probably get some stuff up on github so it can be reviewed and changed as needed.
Coolant may not be needed to start with, although it might be something that could be an option later, especially for steel keys. However much help or evolvement you want is fine by me.. just means i have to do less work.


ckc123.... that would be awesome!!! the less we have to reinvent the proverbial wheel.. the better. there are some technical questions i have right off the bat, especially concerning math and geometry between adjacent depth cuts, that you have probably figured out already. email me the code at the address above. I think some kind of standard block of code is needed per key type, just to specify Depth and spacing, ramp angle, MACS etc... maybe you have some thoughts on that?


Rlhems57... I picked up a brand new FB-200 on wednesday from craigslist. it was 16 years old so the belt had turned brittle, but it looks like it will do a good job. I have heard its fairly easy to cut to code with depth/space keys but it would be nice to just be able to cut to code, without the need for a bunch of code keys.... especially for some of the european stuff. Just as a curveball option, maybe the x/y table could be hinged at the back and sprung loaded.... that way you could just release a clamp and allow a cut key to run against the tracer and run the Y axis back and forth. Basically retain the duplication function, but i don't know!


Ok, so right now i can't afford much of the hardware, but i will make a start on the user inteface with a display i have and some of the basic coding for limit switches etc. If anyone wants to help sponsor this project, then i'll be offering some nice cutaways on the BST forum over the next few weeks to raise money for this. Thanks again and post any other ideas you have.
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ckc123

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Post Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:16 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

l0ckcr4ck3r wrote:i'd even go as far as to say we wouldn't need to even implement GCode on it.


yon don't need gcode. there are standard libraries for stepper motors in Adruino. You can control a motor by "time" (async) or by "steps" (synchronous).. the steps is more accurate, and what I used.
all you need to know (determine) is the combination of steps / drive to figure out the distance of each step on the motor.. once you have that you can calculate the # of steps needed for each code position in the bitting.

I do like the idea of having a stand alone unit, with no additional PCs, Android devices etc, IMHO its just not needed.


There are LCD shields which have all the parts you need for an interface. LCD, 6 buttons, etc. I made my own for the first one, but I'm using an lcd shield for the safe auto dialer I'm making.. it saves a lot of headaches to use a shield.
You will also need an Arduino board with a lot of digital inputs.. I used a mega 2560 (4 per motor), switched, LCD, limit switches, cutter motor.. they all add up.


There will also need to be some limit switches for homing and maybe a relay to start/stop the slaved cutting machine.


I bought some for mine to "auto home" but never got around to implementing them.. the stage I'm using has switches on them but they are not compatible.. I just never got around to swapping them out.. it can be done.


ckc123.... that would be awesome!!! the less we have to reinvent the proverbial wheel.. the better. there are some technical questions i have right off the bat, especially concerning math and geometry between adjacent depth cuts, that you have probably figured out already. email me the code at the address above. I think some kind of standard block of code is needed per key type, just to specify Depth and spacing, ramp angle, MACS etc... maybe you have some thoughts on that?


the math is pretty simple once you convert the motor step size to length.. you can then calculate the distance for each code depth, and space between each.. I just programmed in 3 key types. if you want to get fancy in the future, just add an SD card board, and you can store the definition for the keys on the CD card so you can remove and configure on the PC to add/modify.. it saves having to recode it with a USB cable / arduino source, once you get it up and running.
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dmasters

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Post Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

I had a fancy for a project like this, which I haven't completely abandoned yet. My original idea was to retro an HPC 1200 with steppers and run the whole thing with either a Pi/Touchscreen or Android/Arduino combo. The plan was to use the cards as a guide for programming the motor control, then tuck all the info all away in a database and code the front end in Python with a nice Qt GUI. Cost is prohibitive, however, even a used Blitz still fetches $800+ with cards, if I'm spending that much I might as well get a desktop CNC and make it cut the keys for me amongst all the projects I would have in store for it.


Here's a query: Is it possible (i.e. legal) to prepare and release an open source database of D & S charts? Is there one out there? It would be nearly identical to, say, the Framon D & S Manual but am I wrong in assuming they can only hold copyright on their presentation and physical publication of the information? It's not THEIR information, it's the manufacturer's they only compiled and printed it.
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Anarchy_won

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Post Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Here a a link to a bunch of D&S info that's in the public so I dont see how putting it in another DB would matter ;)

http://kstoerz.com/locksport/bitting/bitting.php
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l0ckcr4ck3r

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Post Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

I don't think its a problem at all but it has raised another point. Maybe the plans should be released under a creative commons agreement. Free to individuals to use and improve upon but restrict commercial use of it. That way, the likes of Ilco and HPC can't just take the work for nothing and start knocking out overpriced products based on it.
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dmasters

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Post Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:58 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

dmasters wrote:Here's a query: Is it possible (i.e. legal) to prepare and release an open source database of D & S charts? Is there one out there?


I should have practiced some Google-Fu before posting my query. There are actually several sources readily available, here is another good one.

http://www.locksafesystems.com/depth_and_space.htm

I think my brain was hung up on CODES and not just the D&S. I may have to find some time and gather a few of theses sporadic lists together.
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l0ckcr4ck3r

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Post Thu May 28, 2015 10:00 pm

Re: Open Source Key Machine

Just thought id check in and see if anyone has had any more good ideas... Its taken a while to get the components together, and I'm still waiting on the RAMPS board.

I am hoping this will be an Open Source project so anyone can throw ideas in... I will not be able to come up with the best solution on my own, but this is what i have so far:

Stick with the Proxxon X/Y table because it relatively cheap, easy to CNC and pretty accurate from what i can see so far.
Use an Arduino MEGA running a stripped down version of "Marlin" with a RAMPS board. the drivers can be switched out if they get fried.
Use NEMA 17 motor, they are cheap, it keeps the price of drivers down and will let you use 12V PSU from an old PC. The leadscew pitch on the table is 1mm so there will be loads of force generated with the 60-80oz/in motors.
Stick with the original idea of a touchscreen interface using the 4D systems screen. Its fairly easy to create a Conversational interface that just asks "what key?" and "what bitting?" then get it dynamically generates the simple GCode from user selections.

From that point you just buffer the GCode over serial to the Mega and it interprets it and cuts. If you wanted to, you could pipe the GCode over a bluetooth or WiFi link from an Android or something and just have an app to generate the Gcode instead.

any more thoughts would be welcome before i start down this route, thanks!

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