Interesting Graph Results

[shadowlock]

Graph 1.jpg

Graph 2.jpg

Okay guys, it's Friday and if you're anything like me when you get home you start picking or spinning. LOL. So, I'm on my 4th opening (really 3rd because opening #3 was a failure) and after graphing the lock I opened it, but along the way some very interesting results. Now bear in mind that I'm on opening #4. So, for those of you out there who have 40 or 50 plus openings this might be no big deal to you, but to a rookie like me it's very interesting. Brief background info. I'm really trying to learn to "free spin" so that If I come across a safe on the fly that needs to be opened I'll be ready. I do believe doing it the basic way is extremely safe and reliable. And so even though I do some of the "shortcuts" I always follow up with the basics to kind of double check my work. Which in opening #3 was a complete disaster (but that's another story).

So, I had my lockie change the combo again. My lock is a group 2 lock cutaway ( I do honestly try my best not to look; only sometimes when I'm Isolating W2 and have to park other wheels in different areas I might get a little confused and take a peek at which way the wheels are moving.) and also my lockie buddy is going to give me a practice lock that's not a cutaway, hopefully next week. That'll be fun.

Anyway, so I'm gonna post my first graph that I'd like you guys to look at and tell me what you think. And my question is which of these is the gate I'm looking for??? I know the gate now that I've finished the opening, but the graph is really interesting to me and I have some questions. The same thing with the second graph. I know where the gate is, but I'm interested to know what you guys would say just from looking at both graphs. They are for W3 and W2. I was able to open the lock after BF'ing the last number (or really number 1 in the combo).

Take a good look guys, because this is kind of a trick (for lack of a better word)....not really a trick...but to me it was kind of tricky....


Thanks,
Rick
shadowlock

[flywheel]

Graph one: ~12 of interest
Graph two: trick question, right? It's gotta be 79.

Please, please, please....

[shadowlock]

LOL....Flywheel thinking correctly.....close....let me ask you a question Fly.....

If you're isolating one wheel....How would you know which is the real gate if you have 2 or 3 indications on one wheel??? I was only graphing RCP's on these two graphs and then I went back and did AWL and AWR and I was able to find the true gates....but if you're doing the shortcut way...look at the graph for W2....it appears there are several gates on one wheel??? When I'm isolating one wheel I'm not doing any Hi/Low test since the wheel is being isolated??

[shadowlock]

Okay now look at this graph. I parked W1 and W2 and spun W3 in Isolation to find the Gate for W3, right? Or so I thought. LOL....Tell me what you think about this graph..

[Mikeh727]

Rick!

Nice graphs...and I agree with flywheel that W2 has to have a gate around 79. That's really the only indication on that graph that I would consider. It's not only the biggest drop but the steepest. Big steep drops are great, but in my opinion a smaller but very steep drop is what I would investigate further prior to shallower, deeper drops.

The other graphs are interesting. Looking at them I would feel better if I knew they were labeled incorrectly! Why? Well when you park W1 and W2 with right rotation, you spin W3 left, so you read your graph left to right. On that graph you get a narrowing at about 7.5 and then a huge jump at about 12.5. If you were to read it the other way, it would be a much better indication. But to me that's worth investigating. Now I could be misreading your labels...I assume AR 1&2@10 means that you are parking 1&2 with right rotation and spinning W3 left.

Spinning the other way, you get a slight drop and huge jump, again right about the same place. So I again agree with fly that it's an area worth investigating.

As for multiple indications on one wheel that might be gate indications, you can do a couple of things. Amplify the areas and see if anything develops, or spin the other direction and see if you get a better indication. Sometimes gates only indicate one direction so that doesn't always work but it's worth a try. Otherwise, do as you did and revert back to basics. Spin AWL through those areas and see what you come up with, then try AWR. At least that's what I would try

Now I'm interested to see what the combo actually was!

Let us know!!!

-Mike

[shadowlock]

Thanks for the comments Mike. I was trying to get a good discussion going like last time. I really enjoy reading everyone's thoughts. As for this opening? Well some things happened to me that had not happened before. As I said earlier, that doesn't say much because I'm only on my 4th opening. So this may happen quite often, but it just hasn't to me. If you look at the graph that is marked as Graph #3 or the last graph I uploaded you'll see that I isolated W3 to look for that individual gate. However, on that graph the gate for W3 did not appear at all, but the gates for both W1 and W2 did!!! What??? how did that happen? LOL

The number for W3 is............L80 So, flywheel was close on his guess of 79....

Mike what also really bothered me was graph 1 or the first graph at the top of this post. if you look at it closely, there appear to be several areas that are showing classic gate signatures, right?
When in fact the actual gate is way off from where I thought it was.

Finally when I brute forced the first number of the combo and found it.........I was actually surprised to find it showing on Graph #3 as a regular gate signature when I never did anything to look for W1 gate.....it just popped out there on the graph on it's own.....crazy!!!.........So, it got me to thinking some things....should I always be looking for W1's gate as well as W2 and W3?? Also, on the top graph all of those pretty looking gate signatures were nothing after all.....and the actual gate was located at a small drop that looked like it would not have been anything worth looking at.....

Ok, so enough already right.....for the final combo (drumroll.....)

L62 (W1)
R33 (W2)
L81 (W3)


So, how did I find the correct gates after all??? I ran everything the basic way and compared the basic way graphs to the shortcut way graphs and found the actual gates....Cool...
Rick

[Mikeh727]

Hey Rick,

I need some clarification on your graphs because I see the gate at 79 on the graph where you spun W2 in isolation. At least that's the way I am reading the label at the top. Both of your other graphs look to me like they were W3 in isolation, just spinning opposite directions. But obviously I'm missing something here since the graph that I thought was for W2 is really for W3.

So correct where I'm wrong here.

The very first graph I read to mean that you parked W1 & W2 at 10 with right rotation, then spun W3 in isolation to the Left.

The second graph I read to mean that you parked W1 at R90, W3 at R something (cutoff in the picture), and spun W2 in isolation, I would assume Left.

The last graph I read to mean that you parked W1 & W2 at 10 with left rotation, and spun W3 in isolation to the Right.

Clearing up my confusion on the graphs would help me out!

As far as a gate indicating on a wheel that isn't being rotated, that's not possible and has to be a coincidence. When you spin a wheel in isolation, you are graphing that wheel, unless that wheel is being masked by another wheel because where it is parked is relatively higher than the area you are graphing on the wheel you are moving. But the graph still only gives you gate information for the wheel you are spinning.

Anyhow, let me know which graph is which since I'm not smart enough to figure it out on my own!

-Mike

[shadowlock]

Hey Mike. Sorry for the confusion. In the second graph I have posted here. The title has a number erased from it? That number was 81. I spun by tens and found that 90 and 70 had the lowest points around the wheel so I parked W1 on 90 and parked W3 on it's gate of 81. Then I spun W2 in isolation. And since the 2nd number in the actual combo is usually "R" right I spun W2 in isolation to the right so I wouldn't have to do the whole conversion thing. I did the same thing for W3. When I spun W3 left I didn't get a gate signature. But knowing this lock already I knew that it prefers to be spun right, so I did it again spinning right and the gate showed itself.

Rick