Opened this today

[Mikeh727]

My first 'in the wild' opening of a safe!

It was the safe pictured below with an S&G lock, I assume 6730.




The safe belongs to a friend of mine and he just recently found out about my hobby and invited me to give it a try. I was pretty eager but a little bit nervous too since this was my first opening of a safe in use, and frankly I didn't want to screw it up! I'm not going to reveal the combination since this safe is in use and I didn't ask the owners permission, but here's how it went:

I've been trying out a new technique with all of my locks that eliminates high/low testing. I don't like doing them and they are often times unreliable, so I've been spinning in isolation. What I do is start with AWR and take readings every ten increments on the tens to try and find a low spot, park w1 and w2 on that low spot, and then spin w3 around left looking for a gate. W3 normally indicates first and while I understand the risk, I've had pretty good luck with it.

This time, not so much.

I was kind of amazed at the variation in the readings when I spun AWR...almost a full increment of variation between the highs and lows, so I was pretty confident when I found a low spot that w3 would reveal something.

It didn't.

I decided to run AWR again taking readings every 2.5 increments to try and find a gate and do the high/low tests to figure out which wheel it was on. I got nothing going AWR, so I ran AWL to see what I could come up with.

AWL revealed an unmistakable gate, and thankfully, the high test that I did was pretty unmistakable too. The gate I had found was on w3.

Now, my technique has me running W1 and W2 around left every ten increments on the fives, and w3 on it's known gate. Again, I'm looking for a low spot to park w1 on and run w2 AR with w3 on it's know gate. It's a little time consuming but not bad, and my theory is that by going AWR on the tens and AWL on the fives, I stand a decent chance of catching a gate.

I was spinning and got to one of the fives, put w3 at it's gate, and had a huge indication. I was pretty sure I had found a gate!

Which was when I got interrupted by the owner who wanted to chat about guns for a while. No problem, I can pick up where I left off.

Except I didn't remember where I left off when I came back! I also forgot about my 'on the fives' rule when going left and started looking for that gate on the tens near where I had been....nothing.

I just kept going, found a low spot at 40, and spun w2 in isolation, and found the gate that I had previously found, right where I left it. And once I found it, I realized what I had done and mentally kicked myself for being such an idiot!

BF w1 and the safe opened.

Total working time to open the safe was 49:00, which is actually a little disappointing. I've recently improved my personal best time to 17:30, and was hoping for an opening in 30 minutes or less. Had I remembered where I had left off, and what I was doing when I took a break, I would have been under 40 minutes, but still wouldn't have hit 30.

I also didn't have time to go back and figure out if I had missed an indication on w3 when I spun in isolation or if it was being masked. I believe I probably didmiss something, and that bugs me too, but I didn't have time to confirm it.

However, lesson learned...and it was actually a safe this time!

-Mike

[GWiens2001]

Kudos, Mike! Great opening time for your first safe in the wild!

Gordon

[shadowlock]

I agree. Awesome! As you've told me, speed will come in time. Good job though. I like to read these stories because they motivate.

Rick

[CPT1911]

Great report, Mike! Man, isn't it satisfying to open the real deal, especially when people are watching, lol! Glad this worked out well for you.

Sounds like you like the "every ten" method. Honestly, I haven't applied it much on S&G but it sounds like you have had some luck with it. Really great to see you CRUSHIN' these locks, buddy.

Want to make sure I understand your process/logic:

1) AWR by 10s for a low point
2) Park W1+W2 at low point, spin W3 left in iso (understand that didn't work here, but let's say it did)
3) Take W1+W2 AR every ten ON THE FIVES, and park W3 at gate. Why on the fives versus the 10's again??
4) Set W1 on low point found in step three (do you convert to a left before setting W1 on that low? Seems like you might need to?)
5) Spin W2 in iso with W1 on low and W3 on gate
6) Find W2 gate in iso
7) BF W1 to open

Understand that it didn't quite go that way--actually went better since you found a gate on W2 during step 3 (but forgot it...lol...FOCUS MAN!).

Just trying to understand the sequence. I think there is a lot to be said for investigating the wheels that will be parked in advance for a low point before searching a wheel for a gate. As I understand it, that's how the "soft drill" works.

Anyway, this was a great open and I am really proud of you bro. 49 minutes ain't bad it all. How far into the dial did you have to BF to find W1? That can make a big difference on time!

Trevor

[LockManipulator]

Great job! I love going to stores that sell safes and opening them lol I'm getting quite well known at several places. You'll find it a great way to tell others about your hobby!

Now, my technique has me running W1 and W2 around left every ten increments on the fives, and w3 on it's known gate. Again, I'm looking for a low spot to park w1 on and run w2 AR with w3 on it's know gate. It's a little time consuming but not bad, and my theory is that by going AWR on the tens and AWL on the fives, I stand a decent chance of catching a gate.

If you just put wheel 1 right in the middle of the contact area and run wheel 2 around while wheel 3 is on it's gate, it's a lot faster than looking for a low area. Same thing if you're isolating wheel 3, put wheels 1 and 2 in the contact area and spin wheel 3 around. So far, it's always been good enough to let me get a clear reading. Good process though! Personally, I have two different approaches, one is:

1. Wheels 1 & 2 parked in middle of contact area while I spin wheel 3 AL every 2.5 increments.
2. If I find a gate, find gate center then keep wheel 1 in contact area, spin wheel 2 AR, and put wheel 3 on gate.
3. Brute force wheel 1.

That way, there's no high/low tests to worry about. The other is:

1. AWL every 2.5 increments.
2. Amplify gate and tag gate to wheel through either high/low test, wheel isolation, or both if the first isn't conclusive.
3. If w3 read first, spin w1&2 AR w/ w3 on gate. If w2 read first, put w1 in contact area, w2 on gate with right rotation(after finding rotational conversion), isolate w3 AL. If w1 read first, put w1 on gate and spin w2&3 AR.
4. Tag second gate to wheel.
5. Brute force last #.

You can see that the second is more time consuming but also more thorough. The first one is faster only if w3 reads first. More risk, but also higher chance of a faster opening. I just analyze the situation in which I need to open a safe and determine which one would be better to use i.e. if i'm showing off to friends I just go for as fast of a time as possible lol. But if there's a locked safe and forgotten combo, I use the second more comprehensive approach to make sure I don't miss anything.

There isn't really one fastest way to do it, some ways might be faster for others, you just have to find what works for you. A lot of it is also in your dialing. It's about how fast can you accurately dial a combination or take contact point readings.

[Mikeh727]

Hey Guys,

Kudos, Mike! Great opening time for your first safe in the wild!

Gordon

Thanks Gordon! That's pretty close to my usual time, so I 'm not really that disappointed. It's just that my last several openings had been faster, so I expected more. The bigger thrill was an actual 'wild' opening!

I agree. Awesome! As you've told me, speed will come in time. Good job though. I like to read these stories because they motivate.

Rick

Thanks Rick! It WILL come, believe me. My first opening was literally 60 days ago on a direct entry safe. I started group two locks shortly after that opening. And yeah, I've put some time into it, but the point is that you will get there. Keep it up!

Great report, Mike! Man, isn't it satisfying to open the real deal, especially when people are watching, lol! Glad this worked out well for you.

Thanks Trevor! Always great to hear from you.

Want to make sure I understand your process/logic:

1) AWR by 10s for a low point
2) Park W1+W2 at low point, spin W3 left in iso (understand that didn't work here, but let's say it did)
3) Take W1+W2 AR every ten ON THE FIVES, and park W3 at gate. Why on the fives versus the 10's again??
4) Set W1 on low point found in step three (do you convert to a left before setting W1 on that low? Seems like you might need to?)
5) Spin W2 in iso with W1 on low and W3 on gate
6) Find W2 gate in iso
7) BF W1 to open

1) Correct
2) Correct
3) Take W1+W2 AL since my plan is to park W1 and run W2 AR. I try to run the wheels in their proper direction for simplicity. Fives because I took AWR on the ten's. In Step 1 and Step 3, I've actually tested half of the dial, albeit in different directions. There's a good chance I'll catch a gate on one of those runs.
4) No conversion needed. See step 2.
5) Correct
6) Correct
7) Correct

I should say that when spinning on the fives and tens, if I DO see a good gate indication, I continue looking for the next lowest point, mostly on the off chance that I'll hit another gate. Then I follow the same steps to spin in isolation to find out which wheel that gate is on. I'll start with W3, then jump to W2. So the process get's modified if I actually tag a gate.

I've considered doing the AWR exercise and jumping to step 3 and doing that with AWL, but I like having W3 at a known gate if possible.

Understand that it didn't quite go that way--actually went better since you found a gate on W2 during step 3 (but forgot it...lol...FOCUS MAN!).

No it didn't, but it really pissed me off when I figured out what I had done. I think I was a little nervous with an audience, and a friend no less. I didn't want to screw it up! Now that I've got that out of the way, I don't have an excuse for the next one.

As I understand it, that's how the "soft drill" works.

So much to learn...I don't know what the soft drill is

How far into the dial did you have to BF to find W1? That can make a big difference on time!

Almost exactly two-thirds of the way around, so yeah, that makes a difference. And I'm still a pretty slow spinner in my opinion, which is also a factor.

Thanks again Trevor. It's always good to hear your feedback

Great job! I love going to stores that sell safes and opening them lol I'm getting quite well known at several places. You'll find it a great way to tell others about your hobby!

Thanks Jared! I wish there were places around here where I could go but there just aren't any. The one place that has safes are all lower end direct entry safes. I'm pretty sure they won't let me set up a laser pointer lol!

If you just put wheel 1 right in the middle of the contact area and run wheel 2 around while wheel 3 is on it's gate, it's a lot faster than looking for a low area. Same thing if you're isolating wheel 3, put wheels 1 and 2 in the contact area and spin wheel 3 around. So far, it's always been good enough to let me get a clear reading. Good process though! Personally, I have two different approaches, one is:

1. Wheels 1 & 2 parked in middle of contact area while I spin wheel 3 AL every 2.5 increments.
2. If I find a gate, find gate center then keep wheel 1 in contact area, spin wheel 2 AR, and put wheel 3 on gate.
3. Brute force wheel 1.

That way, there's no high/low tests to worry about. The other is:

1. AWL every 2.5 increments.
2. Amplify gate and tag gate to wheel through either high/low test, wheel isolation, or both if the first isn't conclusive.
3. If w3 read first, spin w1&2 AR w/ w3 on gate. If w2 read first, put w1 in contact area, w2 on gate with right rotation(after finding rotational conversion), isolate w3 AL. If w1 read first, put w1 on gate and spin w2&3 AR.
4. Tag second gate to wheel.
5. Brute force last #

It was actually your process and Trevors' with a little Oldfast and Alta input from different threads that got me going this direction. I agree that your method is faster and almost always works just fine. My thought process was that by finding a low spot(s) I increase my chances and it doesn't take that much more time, plus I might get lucky and snag a gate along the way.

That being said, there are many ways to skin this cat. I've been adapting as I've progressed, and I assume as I continue I'll ditch some things and pick up 'better' ways to do things. I t all comes down to personal preference partially, but more so experience. If something works once or twice it seems like a good idea. If it doesn't work the next ten times, it might be time to re-evaluate. I'm at the front end...If I find something that seems to work, I'll stick with it until I find that it consistently doesn't work, or is too time consuming. So I might end up back to just parking in the contact area eventually.

There isn't really one fastest way to do it, some ways might be faster for others, you just have to find what works for you. A lot of it is also in your dialing. It's about how fast can you accurately dial a combination or take contact point readings.

Slowest spinner on the planet right here. I'm working on improving my speed.

Thanks guys for all of your input!

-Mike

[Oldfast]

MIKE!!! Very exciting stuff man Thanks for sharing!

[escher7]

I find it informative that there are shorter ways than charting every step. Clearly these quicker methods are how the pros like Jeff Sitar do it.

[Mikeh727]

I find it informative that there are shorter ways than charting every step. Clearly these quicker methods are how the pros like Jeff Sitar do it.

Yes, there are shorter ways. And the pros are much faster than me!

-Mike