A new Journey

[shadowlock]

Ok guys,

So, I've decided to try and learn how to manipulate safe locks. I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't try and become more proficient at lock picking before attempting to take on a whole new direction with locks. I am still dedicated to improving my lock picking skills, but I think that I can at least begin to familiarize myself with safe locks in my down time. It's quite often that I'll be working on a hard lock and after becoming frustrated with it, I'll turn my attention to something else for a while in order to regain my focus. I could use these times to learn the different parts of a safe lock and maybe some of the techniques involved in manipulating a safe lock.

Today I went to my lock smith buddy and he let me borrow an old safe lock cutaway. He said keep it as long as you need. He also said for me to come back whenever and he would have the "safe man" give me some lessons. It's funny that this lockie has become a real buddy when not too long ago I was a complete stranger. It's nice to see that there are still people out there who commit acts of kindness with out asking for anything in return. I was lucky to meet him. ANYWAY.... I'm attaching some pics of my new cutaway lock and am open to any and all advice on how to get started.

I have downloaded "Daggers" article on safe cracking and am going to be reading it over and over until I get it down. However, I would also welcome any constructive advice from anyone. I am absolutely brand new and would like to know if there are any exercises that I can do to help myself get acquainted with spinning or maybe something in the way of the math that is involved with spinning. Anything like that. Also is it normal to hear the nose hit the contact points when you are spinning the dial?? I'm asking because I have a different S&G safe lock with that a friend of mine at work gave me. It's in pieces and the lockie told me he'd put it together for me if I wanted. It is not a cutaway though. And I do not have change keys for either lock. I do have the combination for the cutaway.

Okay guys wish me luck!

Rick
Shadowlock

[Mikeh727]

Hey Rick,

Welcome to the dark side! I have a similar history. I started picking locks a number of years ago and got reasonably proficient, but never what I would call really good. I made the transition to combination locks and while I still occasionally practice picking, I've found combination locks to be fairly addictive (plan on an active eBay account)!

It's funny that this lockie has become a real buddy when not too long ago I was a complete stranger. It's nice to see that there are still people out there who commit acts of kindness with out asking for anything in return. I was lucky to meet him.

That guy is one of the good guys! It's nice to have friends like that. You'll find that the guys here (as you already know) are also more than willing to help, answer questions, provide constructive criticism when needed, and act as your lock 'support group' .

Your cutaway is very cool, and can be useful in learning how the dials interact. As you will read in Daggers book, understanding that interaction is really the most important piece of the puzzle when you're learning to manipulate. If you don't know what's happening when you spin the dial, you'll be wasting your time. The cutaway will be a great tool to get you started. Also, make sure you read the Matt Blaze article that Daggers mentions at the beginning of his book. It's a little dry in the beginning but contains great information that will help you understand how these locks work.

Also is it normal to hear the nose hit the contact points when you are spinning the dial?? I'm asking because I have a different S&G safe lock with that a friend of mine at work gave me. It's in pieces and the lockie told me he'd put it together for me if I wanted. It is not a cutaway though.

Yes, in my experience, it's normal to hear them click. Some are louder than others, but hearing them is normal. You'll learn to rely on the feel though, not the clicking. It's tempting to use that clicking as an indication, but as you progress, you'll find that in order to get the points to make a click, you'll end up going past the point where you want to take your readings since you have to move the dial faster. At least that's what I've found. Others with more experience can chime in if they have a different opinion. I'm NOT an expert, but I would estimate I have about 50 or so openings.

Try to forget the combination to that cutaway! I would start out graphing so you get an idea of how to take readings, where exactly to take them, and also a nice graph to tell you what the wheels look like. You might ditch graphing as you progress, but it's a great tool when you're starting out.

Have fun, good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

-Mike

[shadowlock]

Mike,

First of all thanks for the great response and the equally great words of encouragement. I really appreciate them. I will most certainly do as you say since it appears to be sound advice. And I know what you mean about the ebay comment. I've seen many safe locks on there and they can get a little pricey. This hobby can be a little expensive sometimes, but it's really fun and strangely relaxes me as well.

I have had first hand experience with asking the guys in the chat room for help with locks and you are correct; they are very skilled and knowledgeable in the area of locks. (and smiley faces) lol

I have read the Matt Blaze article as well, but will probably go over it again since I did not have a lock at the time and was just reading and trying to imagine what he was talking about. Now I have something physical to refer to when needed.

about the combination to the cutaway? I know, I was upset when I looked at the card the lockie gave me cause when he said that's the combo, I looked at the numbers and then looked away not wanting to know, but it was too late, I had already memorized 2 of the 3 numbers. Damn! As I progress I'm sure I'll go see if I can talk him into lending me the change key so that I can change the combo on my own to keep things fresh.

I will update this posting on my progress. I'm not sure if it'll be weekly or monthly yet. I'm not sure how it's gonna go yet. But I will either way.

Thanks again Mike,


Rick

[nsquidc]

You and me both Rick -- I'm starting on the exact same journey myself. Maybe we can give each other pointers as we try this out.

Best,

~NSC

[Oldfast]

So, I've decided to try and learn how to manipulate safe locks.

EXCITING STUFF RICK! I look forward to being along for the ride

However, I would also welcome any constructive advice from anyone. I am absolutely brand new and would like to know if there are any exercises that I can do to help myself get acquainted with spinning or maybe something in the way of the math that is involved with spinning. Anything like that.

I think you've got the right plan - understanding the components that make up the lock,
what each one does, and how they move together. The right questions will come to you
as you go along. No loss of helpful people round here, so the answers are sure to follow.
p.s. You'll be happy to hear there's really no math involved. If there was, I probably wouldn't still be at it. lol

He also said for me to come back whenever and he would have the "safe man" give me some lessons.

THIS I would definitely take advantage of! Sounds like a wonderful opportunity.
You might consider getting a basic understanding on your own before you meet
with him. I think your first session with him would be much more beneficial then.

[GWiens2001]

I am fairly new to the art myself, though am getting better. Warning - it gets expensive in a hurry if you start looking on eBay looking for safe locks you don't have.

Gordon

[shadowlock]

@ NSQUIDC....I'd like that very much. PM me or what ever and we can discuss our progress.

@ Oldfast.....Thanks for the great advice...I will most certainly do that.

@ Gordon.......I've got 2 locks now...the cutaway (I have no idea what brand/model it is), and also the S&G dial with a la guard lock



Okay....so, I'm working on my 1st graph....trying to follow Daggers' instructions as best as possible.....

for any of you guys reading this article.....Dagger has alternative options to graphing, that according to him increase your manipulation time significantly....If any of you can share you experience in this area and let me know if it's beneficial for me to go that route or not I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. He states that it is easier than graphing and I'd like some first hand testimonials if possible, otherwise I'm sticking to the original gameplan.

Thanks all,
Rick

[GWiens2001]

I'm at 12 now, with another one on the way, though that one will be for my son.

Gordon

[mastersmith]

It is very refreshing to see this kind of enthusiasm. Being a working lockie, I don't get the luxury of taking the time to enjoy these things. After awhile a job is just that, though I love this profession I don't get this kind of "high" out of it. Have a great journey fellas, not everyone gets to have this kind of trip!

[shadowlock]

@ Gordon.....That's awesome. I'll get there someday too.

@ Mastersmith........It is very exciting for me since I really love to learn new things.....I'm sure if I had so many years of doing it like you do I'd prob feel the same way. Thanks for the kind words, and I cant wait to pick your brain when I run into any obstacles.


Rick

[LockManipulator]

That's great you're starting safe manipulation! I'm glad my book can be of help You'll find it very fun to learn and many people here helpful on it. That's great you get the opportunity to work with a cutaway, it'll help you significantly. Good spinnin'!

[shadowlock]

@ Daggers. Thanks for the kind words. I love your book. It's alot to soak in, but I'm getting it. I'll keep you updated.

[Mikeh727]

Okay....so, I'm working on my 1st graph....trying to follow Daggers' instructions as best as possible.....

for any of you guys reading this article.....Dagger has alternative options to graphing, that according to him increase your manipulation time significantly....If any of you can share you experience in this area and let me know if it's beneficial for me to go that route or not I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. He states that it is easier than graphing and I'd like some first hand testimonials if possible, otherwise I'm sticking to the original gameplan.

Rick,

Yes, you can significantly decrease your manipulation time if you don't graph. Graphing is a tedious process. BUT...I think there are some benefits, especially when you are starting out.

1) Graphing forces you to slow down and pay very close attention to your readings. "Was that 1/8 or a 1/4 drop? Where do I want to plot this reading?" It makes you think about your readings. This helps you refine how you take readings to become more consistent. Very important.

2) You get a 'picture' of the wheel pack or the wheel that you are graphing. Is this beneficial? Absolutely. Not only does it help you with the lock you are working with, it gives you a better understanding of locks in general. You can see how the highs and lows flow, or, how they don't if you have a fairly round wheel. If you get a chance, look at this post by Oldfast. Jump down and look at the graphs to see the difference between AWR and AWL. This is an example of the type of valuable information that you can get only by graphing.

You will probably ditch graphing before too long. But I'm glad I graphed when I was starting out because it helped my learning curve by giving me a broader knowledge base and forcing me to take good readings.

My two cents

-Mike

[shadowlock]

Mike,

Thanks for the advice and I will certainly stick to the basics. I agree with building a good foundation with regards to understanding how a safe lock works and how to take good readings. Daggers' book is really packed with information on how to graph, I'm just kind of a rock and it's slow going for me right now understanding how to graph. I've been looking around the net for any other articles on graphing to see if maybe a different perspective on the subject can help me better understand. I'm sure it's simple, I just need a better grasp on the subject. Then again I've only read it once.

I'll let you know how it goes soon. I printed out a graph sheet last night and am currently working on making my first graph. Well see how that goes.

Thanks,
Rick

[LockManipulator]

Don't worry, learning to manipulate a safe lock takes longer than learning to pick a lock but once you got it, it'll become more simplified There are a lot of tough moments since it requires more visualization than lockpicking which makes it easier for some but anyone can get the grasp of it.