Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:22 pm
First Manipulation...Sentry safe UNLOCKED!
Hey Guys,
STOKED!!
Today I opened my first safe lock, attached to my daughters Sentry Fire Safe. I'll try to be brief, but I'll post how I did it since no one else seems to have posted much about these safes.
These safes are different than more secure safes with spring loaded fences. They are NOT a group two lock. They have a direct entry fence, which means you have to turn the lever to open the safe once you have dialed in the correct combination. They have two wheels and the drive cam. The drive cam holds false gates, and one true gate.
Here's how I did it. Most of the information was available on this site, and the additional reading that I did was from links on this site. Thanks to Oldfast, Daggers, Altashot, Femurat, and Flywheel for information that they posted including tutorials. There are probably others, and I'm sorry if I missed someone!
So, where to start? The first thing that I did was felt all of the false gates. I didn't graph anything, but just found them by feel the way that you do with a master padlock. I wasn't sure how this would help at the time but it turned out to be important.
I needed to graph somehow, so on my first attempt I set up a pointer that was attached to the bolt lever and had a box on the side of the safe with some graph paper attached. I labeled each increment with a number so that the pointer pointed to numbers on the scale. According to the National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation, you should be able to map wheels through false gates. Also, consistent tension on the handle was important, so I set up a thick rubber band on the handle and attached to a hook on my workbench to keep tension on the handle and started to graph.
Graphing this safe is pretty easy. I used a different technique than Altashot used, mainly due to my inexperience. I started with AWL at zero. Each time I would release the tension on the handle (since the false gates will stop the dial from moving), moved in 2.5 increments, then let go of the handle so the rubber band would pull the handle down with the same tension every time. I recorded the number from the pointer on my graph. I was off and running.
And my graph was of absolutely no use whatsoever. I won't post it here, but it had points plotted all over the place. I was discouraged, so tried again with AWR. I got the same result and wasn't sure why.
I tried again AWL just to try SOMETHING. Same result.
I started playing with the dial, the handle, and looking at the graph. It turns out that even though the rubber band pulled a fair amount of tension, it wasn't enough to overcome some stickiness in the handle. In other words, I got inconsistent results and a graph that looked like I threw darts at it. So I decided to ditch the rubber band and just use hand pressure every new increment.
This worked much better. So my next graph I started with AWL and graphed in 2.5 increments. I got much more consistent results, except that I graphed out 12 possible gates. Yep, I had just graphed the 11 false gates and one true gate. Remember I mentioned that you should be able to graph through false gates? Not so much with this safe. I don't know if it's just this unit or these safes in general. The book is over 30 years old and perhaps these safes are a little different now than they were when the book was written. Either way, I graphed 12 gates, none any deeper than the other. But again, not a useful graph.
I remembered that Oldfast posted somewhere that the widest gate is usually the true gate. Well, the widest gate was easy to determine even without the graph. Just by feel, one gate was almost 4 increments wide, while all of the others were either two or three. This gate was from about 76-80. I picked 78 as the most likely last number and went from there.
My next graph was with the drive cam at 78 and wheels one and two AR, assuming that 2 would graph first. I got a flat line graph with no clear indications of a gate. I thought maybe one wheel was masking the other, so I put 1 and 3 on 78 and tried to graph wheel 2. The short version is that my results where inconsistent, with a couple of possible gates. (In this case, since the third number is attached to the drive cam, the direction isn't important. It will park in the same place no matter which direction it is dialed.)
Needless to say, I was a bit disappointed. I knew it was most likely my technique, my setup, or my assumptions. It wasn't the safes fault!
So I started over. I made a new, longer pointer and different scale thinking that a likely problem was that my graphing wasn't detailed enough. Then I started with the same assumption of the third number being 78. Here's a picture of the setup (with my two new S&G locks on top of the safe waiting to be mounted!):
Here's a closeup of the deflection graph for the handle:
And I proceeded to graph with 3 at 78 and 1 & 2 AR. I got what I thought was a pretty good gate signature at 47.5. I did a quick high test to try and figure out which wheel was indicating. What I found was that the fixed drive pins makes the right and left dialing differences 9 increments for the first wheel, so I picked 60 instead of 57.5 for the high test just to be safe. Wheel 1 indicated a deeper deflection by about .5 on my deflection scale, so I put 1 @ 47.5R, 3 at 78 and started to graph (and hope to open) wheel 2.
I got to 20, and WOOT! The door opened! Here are the last two graphs:
Yes, I know it says that I used 77.5 instead of 78 for wheel three...typo.
And, the open safe:
The combination was R47.5, L20, R78. But, that's the wrong direction! Not that it matters, the safe opens that way. But hey, the correct way to open the safe according to the manual is L-R-L. I had to figure out the RIGHT combination. Dialing from the other direction parks the gates at different numbers. Dagger talks about this in his book. The rule of thumb that I found in the National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation is that if you are converting a Left number to a Right number, the true number will be to the Right. If you're converting a Right number to a Left number, the resulting number will be to the Left. I figured out the difference, and it was 3 for wheel two and 9 for wheel 1. The actual combination L38-R23-L78.
What a great feeling it was to open this safe!!
Once I started over, it took about an hour to get into the safe. Total time spent was more like 5 or 6 hours, but the experience was invaluable. After the fact, I'm glad it didn't all go perfect at first since I learned things NOT to do.
Thanks everyone, and thanks for letting me share the excitement!
-Mike
STOKED!!
Today I opened my first safe lock, attached to my daughters Sentry Fire Safe. I'll try to be brief, but I'll post how I did it since no one else seems to have posted much about these safes.
These safes are different than more secure safes with spring loaded fences. They are NOT a group two lock. They have a direct entry fence, which means you have to turn the lever to open the safe once you have dialed in the correct combination. They have two wheels and the drive cam. The drive cam holds false gates, and one true gate.
Here's how I did it. Most of the information was available on this site, and the additional reading that I did was from links on this site. Thanks to Oldfast, Daggers, Altashot, Femurat, and Flywheel for information that they posted including tutorials. There are probably others, and I'm sorry if I missed someone!
So, where to start? The first thing that I did was felt all of the false gates. I didn't graph anything, but just found them by feel the way that you do with a master padlock. I wasn't sure how this would help at the time but it turned out to be important.
I needed to graph somehow, so on my first attempt I set up a pointer that was attached to the bolt lever and had a box on the side of the safe with some graph paper attached. I labeled each increment with a number so that the pointer pointed to numbers on the scale. According to the National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation, you should be able to map wheels through false gates. Also, consistent tension on the handle was important, so I set up a thick rubber band on the handle and attached to a hook on my workbench to keep tension on the handle and started to graph.
Graphing this safe is pretty easy. I used a different technique than Altashot used, mainly due to my inexperience. I started with AWL at zero. Each time I would release the tension on the handle (since the false gates will stop the dial from moving), moved in 2.5 increments, then let go of the handle so the rubber band would pull the handle down with the same tension every time. I recorded the number from the pointer on my graph. I was off and running.
And my graph was of absolutely no use whatsoever. I won't post it here, but it had points plotted all over the place. I was discouraged, so tried again with AWR. I got the same result and wasn't sure why.
I tried again AWL just to try SOMETHING. Same result.
I started playing with the dial, the handle, and looking at the graph. It turns out that even though the rubber band pulled a fair amount of tension, it wasn't enough to overcome some stickiness in the handle. In other words, I got inconsistent results and a graph that looked like I threw darts at it. So I decided to ditch the rubber band and just use hand pressure every new increment.
This worked much better. So my next graph I started with AWL and graphed in 2.5 increments. I got much more consistent results, except that I graphed out 12 possible gates. Yep, I had just graphed the 11 false gates and one true gate. Remember I mentioned that you should be able to graph through false gates? Not so much with this safe. I don't know if it's just this unit or these safes in general. The book is over 30 years old and perhaps these safes are a little different now than they were when the book was written. Either way, I graphed 12 gates, none any deeper than the other. But again, not a useful graph.
I remembered that Oldfast posted somewhere that the widest gate is usually the true gate. Well, the widest gate was easy to determine even without the graph. Just by feel, one gate was almost 4 increments wide, while all of the others were either two or three. This gate was from about 76-80. I picked 78 as the most likely last number and went from there.
My next graph was with the drive cam at 78 and wheels one and two AR, assuming that 2 would graph first. I got a flat line graph with no clear indications of a gate. I thought maybe one wheel was masking the other, so I put 1 and 3 on 78 and tried to graph wheel 2. The short version is that my results where inconsistent, with a couple of possible gates. (In this case, since the third number is attached to the drive cam, the direction isn't important. It will park in the same place no matter which direction it is dialed.)
Needless to say, I was a bit disappointed. I knew it was most likely my technique, my setup, or my assumptions. It wasn't the safes fault!
So I started over. I made a new, longer pointer and different scale thinking that a likely problem was that my graphing wasn't detailed enough. Then I started with the same assumption of the third number being 78. Here's a picture of the setup (with my two new S&G locks on top of the safe waiting to be mounted!):
Here's a closeup of the deflection graph for the handle:
And I proceeded to graph with 3 at 78 and 1 & 2 AR. I got what I thought was a pretty good gate signature at 47.5. I did a quick high test to try and figure out which wheel was indicating. What I found was that the fixed drive pins makes the right and left dialing differences 9 increments for the first wheel, so I picked 60 instead of 57.5 for the high test just to be safe. Wheel 1 indicated a deeper deflection by about .5 on my deflection scale, so I put 1 @ 47.5R, 3 at 78 and started to graph (and hope to open) wheel 2.
I got to 20, and WOOT! The door opened! Here are the last two graphs:
Yes, I know it says that I used 77.5 instead of 78 for wheel three...typo.
And, the open safe:
The combination was R47.5, L20, R78. But, that's the wrong direction! Not that it matters, the safe opens that way. But hey, the correct way to open the safe according to the manual is L-R-L. I had to figure out the RIGHT combination. Dialing from the other direction parks the gates at different numbers. Dagger talks about this in his book. The rule of thumb that I found in the National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation is that if you are converting a Left number to a Right number, the true number will be to the Right. If you're converting a Right number to a Left number, the resulting number will be to the Left. I figured out the difference, and it was 3 for wheel two and 9 for wheel 1. The actual combination L38-R23-L78.
What a great feeling it was to open this safe!!
Once I started over, it took about an hour to get into the safe. Total time spent was more like 5 or 6 hours, but the experience was invaluable. After the fact, I'm glad it didn't all go perfect at first since I learned things NOT to do.
Thanks everyone, and thanks for letting me share the excitement!
-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
