SAargent & Greenleaf safe malfunction

[CPT1911]

Great work, Dan!

Glad you had success on this one. Isn't it a wonderful feeling?!

Without examining the lock body, it would be a little tough to know exactly what is wrong. You should be able to remove a thin metal cover on the back of the door and see the lock body and boltwork. Post a few pictures of it if you can. Assuming it is a standard footprint lock (S&G had some that were not standard footprint such as Adjustalock) replacing it should be pretty straighforward for you and not very costly--like $35. We can help.

FYI,if you do choose to remove the cover and take pictures, be wary relockers. As long as you don't start removing screws on the door's internals and shut the door, you should be fine. However, if, for example, you were to remove the back cover of the lock, shut the door and accidentally lock it, you'd be screwed. There could be other relockers that function similarly, but again, not a big deal, just something to be aware of. Don't get too adventuresome unless you are really sure what you are looking at.

You could also trouble shoot the existing lock, but honestly, I'd be for swapping the whole thing out unless it is very apparent what is wrong and it just needs little clean-up. Lockouts can be awfully frustrating and $35 is cheap insurance.

Trevor

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

Oh GREAT work Dan! I have been looking forward to an update all day and that is about as good as updates can get!

This is why these forums are so awesome... we get to celebrate and cheer friends victories along with them!

Stick around and we can share some good ol' lockpicking knowledge too ; )

[GWiens2001]

Oh GREAT work Dan! I have been looking forward to an update all day and that is about as good as updates can get!

This is why these forums are so awesome... we get to celebrate and cheer friends victories along with them!

Stick around and we can share some good ol' lockpicking knowledge too ; )

Not to mention that we all learn from each other here! Sometimes even newbies come up with some fantastic ideas, so everyone benefits. This is a fantastic forum!

Gordon

[MindenDadof6]

Guys,

Here are several photos of the safe Interior. The round seal imprinted on the wheel box says,"Sargent & Greenleaf , Inc Rochester, NY USA and has this # R6730 imprinted.

Mom would be thrilled if her safe could be made workable for $35 or more. Being a fix it kind of guy I am enjoying the challenge and learning new things.


Thanks to everyone,


Dan Frazier

[bitbuster]

if it hadn't been previously mentioned, the safe you have was made by Herring-Hall-Marvin. like squelch stated, the lock has an internal relocker. as per your photos it also has the typical HHM exterior relocker. (outside of, but near lock body)

[MindenDadof6]

Is there a source for a replacement lock body (box) for this Herring Hall Marvin.

I assume HHM made safe for S & G to rebrand?

Thanks,


Dan

[CPT1911]

Hi Dan,

Let me start by saying that I am not a safe tech and there are lots of people who are more qualified here to help you than I am. It's possible that one of them could glance at your pictures and tell you in a nanosecond what needs to be replaced within the lock. But since you asked about replacing the entire lock, I can share what little I know about that process. Again, I am not a safe tech, but I have mounted about 30 locks now on practice stands from a variety of manufacturers. I've also replaced the lock on my own safe so I can at least give you the basics.

I am 99.9% confident that the lock body you have uses the standard "magic module" footprint. The only characteristic that is different from what I have seen in a variety of S&G locks is the configuration of your lever and cam. The levers I am familiar with do not have the second hook on the lever arm below the nose. From the picture, it looks like that hook engages a roller on the cam and applies additional closing force when the lock is locked? It might be a good idea to ask someone else on here if a current production lock body would work on your safe since this component is different. It could just be the "old" design.

We have no reason to believe that your dial or spindle are damaged and I would imagine that you would want to keep the same appearance of the existing dial. If this is the case, you can just purchase a new lock body to replace the one on your safe. It will include everything you need and function perfectly with your exisiting dial assembly---the spindle threads are the same.

Here is the $30 option from LaGard: http://www.mbausa.com/item.asp?num=LG3330

If you want to use an S&G lock body, they are in the $50 range: http://www.mbausa.com/item.asp?num=SG6730-010

Note I linked you to new lock bodies--you can of course purchase used on ebay and sometimes get a good deal, but I figured you might want to use a new lock since this is a working safe.

I doubt you care, but if you want to up the security on your safe from the group 2 locks I linked you to, there are some 2M locks from LaGard on there that are in the same price range. However, Group 2 is fine I'm sure for your application.

Here is a great video that shows how to install all this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmLG8tNfWQ


Again, might want to confirm that the wierd lever assembly in your safe is not required for it to function. I am not qualified to comment on that.

Good luck!

Trevor

[bitbuster]

Herring-Hall-Marvin made safes. the company known as HHM was bought out years ago and does not exist today. S&G made the locks for many safe companies years ago and ,as you know,still is in business today.
by some of what you have said that the combo sometimes works and then doesn't makes me think you have wheel drift. may be a stuck fly. before investing in a replacement lock you may want to take the wheels off and give them a good cleaning. but.....that's up to you. if you're up to it ...fine.if not..fine. whatever is best for you. good luck.

[CPT1911]

by some of what you have said that the combo sometimes works and then doesn't makes me think you have wheel drift. may be a stuck fly. before investing in a replacement lock you may want to take the wheels off and give them a good cleaning.

Great advice for the OP, bitbuster! I'd be interested in seeing some gut shots of his lock and do a post mortem on what went wrong.

Bitbuster, you have obviously worked with these before. In the pictures, it appears that the lever has a hook on it below the nose that engages a roller on the cam. I have never seen this before on S&G. I would imagine this adds force to the bolt when it extends to lock the safe? Did S&G build these specifically for HHM safes and similar designs (looks like the bolt "pushes" on the lockwork rather than just sliding into a slot) or is this just an older style of S&G lock that I am not familiar with? I was wondering if the design of the new locks would work here (I'm guessing it would....).

Trevor

[bitbuster]

i don't believe this lock was specifically made for HHM. somewhere in my safe ventures i have seen this lock but i can't recall the safe it was in. i currently own a much larger HHM that has an S&G 6730 that would fit the safe. yes, the 'roller' aids in the lock as it is put in the open and locked positions.
photos of the lock as each part is removed would be ideal.

[MindenDadof6]

Gentlemen, below are the photos of mom's lock disassembly. After pulling it apart, I am positive I want to just buy a new lock. The S&G 6730-010 at MBAUSA for $56 that CPT1911 linked in his post looks good to me, if it will bolt up correctly. The photo of the final wheel shows a loose piece at 8 oclock. the final photo is that loose piece. I don't know if it is a broken piece or just came loose as I pulled the pieces out, I'm guessing that may be the cause of the lockout..


Thanks to all for the help,


Dan Frazier

Oops, I should have attached photos last in sequence first uploaded.

[bitbuster]

nice job, nice photos. the flies appear to be intact. i cannot make out what that piece of metal is.