SAargent & Greenleaf safe malfunction

[MindenDadof6]

Hello from the Bayou State,

My 91 year old mother has an S&G safe. After about 50 years of loyal service, it will no longer open. Mom has opened it hundreds of times over the years and is still dialing the combo correctly. I have opened it dozens of times prior to this malfunction. So we have the correct combination and nothing dramatic has happened to it. The combination wheel spins freely, with about the sames resistance as before.

The safe is a model # 1115 HTC . It has one of the following 4 combination locks according to the manual. A R6720 or R6725 or R6730 or R6735 combination lock.
Serial number is C-428702.

Is there anyway (for me, an amateur) to get it open without destroying the unit. I did lay it on its back and worked a bit of penetrating oil into the dial area.

Alas, it still won't open....Even if I had to ruin the combination feature, if it still could remain fire proof, I could weld a hasp and lock with a big padlock, that would keep her important papers and family keepsakes just fine.






Thank you,



Dan Frazier
Minden, Louisiana

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

Dialing diagnostics. Let me find a link for you unless someome beats me to it.

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/ ... _locks.pdf

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

Page 9 safe dialing diagnostics. Also there is a cool app for android phones called Safeman's Helper https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... emanhelper which gives you a resourse to run through most basic diagnostics on a known combination

[MindenDadof6]

I thank you , GratefulDead from Canada.

This makes way more sense than torch, sledge and prybars!


Dan

[GWiens2001]

I thank you , GratefulDead from Canada.

This makes way more sense than torch, sledge and prybars!


Dan

And is almost as much fun!

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

What exactly isn't working in the dialing procedure?

You dial the numbers of the combination, then you turn Right until the dial normally stops at somewhere in between 90 and 10, the dial stops being able to turn, and then you throw the handle. which of these steps is no longer working?

if your combination is 20-40-60 try dialing a couple numbers + or - in case your wheels have worn over the years maybe dial 19-40-60 or 20-41-60 or 20-40-59

Also, if it has been a few months since last opening, could it be the dialing order you are dialing that you *think* is correct is really off by a couple small steps? dialing Left Right Left or Right Left Right, etc..


but going back to my first question, which step in the normal operating procedure do you feel is no longer working as it would in the past? do you dial the combo and then turn Right but the dial keeps turning and never stops? or does the dial stop dead but turning the handle doesnt open the door? does the handle turn or is it not able to?

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[MindenDadof6]

The safe was opened just a few days before it failed to open.

The final turn of the dial, after entering the first three numbers, in the past, dial would stop on its own and then one could throw the handle to open.

Now dial does not ever hit that stop point.


Thanks, Dan

[GWiens2001]

So the bolt is not being thrown. This can be caused by the wrong combination (even the right combination, but the flys are stkicking, or the wheels are loose, or the wheels are not turning freely), a missing spline key (fell out), and so on.

Have you made sure the dial is picking up all three wheels? Finding that out should be part of the dialing diagnostics above, and would be my first step. If they are, then dial what you know to be the correct combination (make sure the safe is facing the normal direction (not lying flat unless it normally does so)). Then turn the dial to about 10 and hitting next to the dial on the door with a large rubber faced mallet. Four or five blows. If the lever is sticking, or the wheels are slightly out of line for the combination, it may allow them to jiggle enough to permit the fence to drop into the gates. Then keep turning towards 0 and see if the dial then stops as it normally would do.

If you get this safe open, DO NOT close and lock it again until the lock has been disassembled and the cause of the problem has be repaired.

Good luck,


Gordon

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

Do not add any more penetrating oil... this will not make the situation any better for you. I am curious though... did you add it because the dial was hard to turn or grinding, or was it on a hope and prayer as such as an attempt to fix the problem of the combination not working?

[MindenDadof6]

Penetration oil was only a hope and prayer action.

Lubrication has solved many of life's problems in the past, not really safe related though.


Thanks,



Dan

[Gratefuldeadbolt]

Have you had any luck with dialing diagnostics.

What about starting with basics... can you tell if all 3 wheels are picking up? (I assume its a 3 number combination ... well a set of 3 two digit number between 0 and 99 I mean)

[MindenDadof6]

Today I only had enough time to go to Mom's house and with my son's help get the safe pick back up into vertical (normal) position. It is a three number combination, so a 3 wheel lock. I have the diagnostics book printed and have read over it. Tomorrow I can dedicate some focused time to safe-cracking.


Thank you all,


Dan


Will report any results before I leave for work at 1:30 PM Central time.

[MindenDadof6]

I recently watched the movie, The Italian Job, I got that awesome feeling when mom's safe opened, due to your guidance. Even though I didn't get bricks of gold it felt amazing. Thank you all.

So I went thru the diagnostics and it seemed only two of the wheels were being picked up. But, being a novice I wasn't sure. So I filled in the form with 30 combination variations to see if that would work, and started dialing.

When that didn't do the trick, I remembered this advise from , Goblin Gordon in Arizona.

"Have you made sure the dial is picking up all three wheels? Finding that out should be part of the dialing diagnostics above, and would be my first step. If they are, then dial what you know to be the correct combination (make sure the safe is facing the normal direction (not lying flat unless it normally does so)). Then turn the dial to about 10 and hitting next to the dial on the door with a large rubber faced mallet. Four or five blows. If the lever is sticking, or the wheels are slightly out of line for the combination, it may allow them to jiggle enough to permit the fence to drop into the gates. Then keep turning towards 0 and see if the dial then stops as it normally would do.


LIKE MAGIC!!! My 91 year old mom was standing there watching me at the time and she let out a squeal of delight.


So I taped the dial in place and shut the door so her stuff is a bit fire proof. Now do I need to remove the lock assembly and see if it is dirty, gummy or has burrs.


I THANK YOU ALL,


Best part is I don't need to worry about prison..


Dan Frazier


>

[GWiens2001]

Kudos, Dan.

Gordon