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Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

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flywheel

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Post Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:30 am

Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Sargent & Greenleaf R6700 Series
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Black chrome Liberty dial and the silver privacy dial used for the LaGard 3330.
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This was my first time manipulating an S&G group 2 lock.
I began with AWL and looked for low spots every 10 increments. The graph showed identical lows at 20,30, and 40. After double checking I chose 20 as the lowest. The next step was leaving W1+W2 @ L20 while mapping out W3 in increments of 2.5. I was rewarded with an unmistakable gate signature at 68.
So far so good. I proceeded with W1@L20, W3@L68, and mapped out W2. The resulting graph was not as helpful this time around. My initial thought, while still graphing, was that 40-45 was looking good. But after finishing I noticed that 17-35 was just as low for both LCPs and RCPs. Here is where I went with my gut, looked at the points around 45 and ended up with R44.5 as a candidate for W2.
All that was left was to brute force W1 and hope my technique and intuition was correct. Going by increments of 2 I started at 0 and began working my way up. The longer this process goes on the more you question assumptions made in the previous steps. Fortunately, before exhausting all numbers, that always welcome clunk sounded and the lock was open to me.
L82-R44.5-L68. Further investigation with the back cover removed showed 83-43-69 to be better centered.

Final thoughts:
The LaGard 3330 is definitely a smoother lock than this one. Stopping a half increment short almost always resulted in skipping over the target when trying to break the friction. The internals sounded "drier" when spinning the dial meaning that picking up a wheel or skipping over the CPs produced harder clicks. Using a different dial took some adjustment also. I had to reevaluate what I defined as 1/4 and 1/8 increments because it didn't always seem obvious. This was most likely due to better clarity than with my previous dial.
On a positive note, using a dial with white ticks on a dark background that was not sloped inward for privacy resulted in much easier viewing. The silver dial used for the LaGard reflects the black tick marks in that little valley in an eye straining way under artificial lights. I'm guessing a dial with white on matte black is even better than the black chrome.
Overall, with a little skill and a little luck this manipulation worked out. All I need now is a change key for the lock and I can try again. Enough blah blah blah for now...

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Thanks for stopping by!
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CPT1911

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Post Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Congrats on the S&G, flywheel!

You commented on smoothness vs. LaGard. On the lock you are using, I would agree, although I actually prefer the feel of the other S&G models over LaGard. It appears that you have the S&G 6741 (zinc lever, non-adjustable wheel pack tension). This is S&G's lowest end 3-wheel lock and it makes use of a washer at the bottom of the wheel pack to create fixed tension versus the adjustable wheel pack tension on the 6730, etc. I've got three 6741's and the tension and "scratchiness" you describe varies quite a bit. The models with the adjustable wheel pack tension are way, way smoother. S&G recommends the tension be kept at 18 inch oz. (ha!), but if you dial it back you can absolutely FLY on the 6730. The gates are also slightly more narrow than the 6741.

I am glad that mapping the wheel pack every ten and then setting W1 & W1 at a low point worked well for you. Honestly, I do not take this approach with S&G (at least initially) because I have not found them to have nearly the shadowing/CP variation of LaGard, Ilco, etc. For me, starting with an AWL or AWR approach will almost always reveals a gate. I would be interested to know if your W3 or W2 gate would read in an AWL/AWR test.

flywheel wrote:I proceeded with W1@L20, W3@L68, and mapped out W2. The resulting graph was not as helpful this time around.


:agree:

I've also had this issue--in cases were a "low" is low enough to reveal a gate on W3, it's not always low enough to reveal a gate on W2...or at least that's how I think about it. Anyway, I haven't always had great luck with testing W2 in isolation. If I find a gate on W3, I usually take W1&W2 RA, W3 @ [gate] to allow W1 to read as well in case it hits first. Then, when I find a gate on W1 or W2, I do a 2-wheel high low test which historically has been a lot more definitive than a 3-wheel high low. Then BF the last number. I'd be interested to know if your lock reads W3 in AWR/AWL, then W2 when moving W1&W2 together.

Gotta get yourself a 6730 next! Or maybe a Mosler??
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Good stuff and nice job! Thanks for sharing.

flywheel wrote:....Using a different dial took some adjustment also. I had to reevaluate what I defined as 1/4 and 1/8 increments
because it didn't always seem obvious. This was most likely due to better clarity than with my previous dial....

I can relate. This was really one of those things I struggled with for a while. And, like you mentioned,
every dial is a bit different in terms of line widths, colors, etc. I also had a learning curve when I made
the transition to reading in tenths instead of eighths. Often times I'd just set down with several different
dials.... not spinning.... just working within an increment.

And remember, what you might graph as a 3/4, I might call 7/8. That's ok! Consistency is the key.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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flywheel

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Post Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Re: Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Correction: 82-43-68 seems to be the best centered combo. 44.5 was the centered low spot so I'm lucky to dial accurately enough during the last step to get an opening.

CPT1911 wrote:If I find a gate on W3, I usually take W1&W2 RA, W3 @ [gate] to allow W1 to read as well in case it hits first.


I gave it a try, W3 @ L68 and W1+W2 AR. The graph looks very similar to the isolated W2 test. While similar in shape this time it is a little bit rougher and doesn't give me that "look closer at 45!" feeling I had before. The W1 gate at 82 is nowhere to be found.
In this instance isolating W2 or testing W1+W2 is six of one half dozen of the other.

Take care :salute:
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CPT1911

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Post Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:37 pm

Re: Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Thank's flywheel!

Wow, I am really surprised by how much your graph jumps around! That would be a difficult lock to freespin.

Take care and keep it coming!
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Mikeh727

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Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:02 pm

Re: Different lock, different dial, same result (S&G R6700)

Thanks for posting this flywheel. Great information!

-M
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.

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