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Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

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CPT1911

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:13 am

Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Hi guys,

I am building a couple of specialized lock stands for use with my new lock amp. My intent is to A) provide a metal surface to stick the magnetic mic to, and B) approximate the construction of a real door so that sound transfer is about the same.

I bought a couple pieces of 1/2" x 6" x 8" plate steel on ebay ($23 with shipping for two, not bad...). I plan to use those for the front of the "door". My question is what materials I should sandwich between the 1/2 plate and the lock body.

I realize safe construction varies a lot, but what might be some good options? I was considering a 5/8 piece of drywall followed by a piece of thin steel, then the lock body? Or maybe pour a little quickcrete in there to approximate fire clay? Also, seems like the thin steel on the back needs to be connected around the edges to the front since I would assume there is a connection somewhere on a real door and no connection would mean the vibrations would not be transfered from the lock body? Any thoughts besides, "bro, you're crazy" ?
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GWiens2001

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Lock-Goblin-Gordon
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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:29 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Peanut butter and jelly makes a nice filling for a sandwich. But a spindle tube would be recommended. :-D

Seriously, though, Quickkrete is probably a good idea. Again, a spindle tube, friend!!!

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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Josephus

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:35 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Quickcrete by itself isn't significantly fire resistant. There are additives that can be used to make it so. I had to do the mixing by hand for a summer job once. I'm sure cheap gun safes and the like have concrete added to them for weight and perception. If you want to practice for the low end quickcrete could be a good option. Now I understand that fireproofing material is generally plaster of paris, or calcium sulfate, which is merely more hydrated gypsum. So in that sense drywall might be okay, though drywall has more additives like fiberglass, some chemical treatments, and included air. Plaster of paris is merely gypsum with water, so it is far more solid. If you want a fire barrier material I would go with that.

Never having had the opportunity to cut open a safe door, all I can go by is what images I have seen. The few examples I can dig up gives the impression of both the inner and outer layers are of the same thickness mild steel, welded or cast together. Higher end safes with a hardplate layer behind the outer mild steel will probably sound much different. That super hard temper may reverberate more. I don't know. Looking at low end standing safe construction again, the inner layer is much more thin than the outside.

I guess it comes down to what you want to practice for. My new-to-me 6700 came off an ATM with a 3/8" simple case hardened steel door. Was a pain to mount something so short. So there are containers higher up than wallmart steel boxes out there that are just a simple single layer of steel. You could start with that. I suspect that you will need to try several options, including heat treated metals to get a feel for what is out there. Maybe attach your mic to things and see how the sound transfer differs. Look up a safe dealer that has a showroom in your area and take a field trip.
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faygo6

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Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:39 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Drywall is used as a fire wall, so I think your on the right track. Doubled up 3\4 would probably be what your looking for.
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torontosafecracker

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Post Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:48 am

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

I've seen somebody post about modular locks stands, I would love to see one that has a universal template but with inserts for lock mounting plate (usually mild steel) HP or HP sandwich and large slabs of mild steel, replicating a door, but only slightly bigger than the lock. That would be cool... Maybe I'll do it when I got the materials/time. Either way would love to see it.

Also you can replicate as much as you'd like with materials, but the door will be open faced and will not give off the same reverb/sounds as a closed box , like a safe. Just a thought.

Hope it works out, also Drywall is going to replicate a fire, data or composite safe, but some are just all steel/alloys

TSC
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CPT1911

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:12 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Well, my "safe door" lock stand is complete. I used 1/2 inch plate steel. The first one has a LaGard 3332 2M lock mounted that his given me tremendous frustration. The stand is heavy--if I dropped it on myself or something I cared about, the damage would likely be severe!

You may recall I debated on using additional material (i.e. concrete, drywall, etc.) to add thickness and mimick fire retardent material. In the end, I decided a simple slab of steel was realistic enough. In fact, the Major floor safe I found and opened in our home was just that--1/2 plate steel.

Here are a few pics of the stand and a video of what the amp sounds like attached. The whole goal of amplification on the LaGard 2M was hearing the precise moment that the fence makes contact with the wheel pack, even when turning the dial slowly (can be heard around 98 and 12.5 in the video).

Haven't had much time to play with it yet--so many other projects! But at least the stand is built.

Enjoy!

IMG_4795.JPG


IMG_4796.JPG


IMG_4797.JPG


Video:

http://youtu.be/8SBBqhwzmFs
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:16 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

That's badass Trevor!
I hope it serves your purpose.
I always love following your projects.
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Altashot

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Post Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:03 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Great mock-up of a door.
Did you put the 2 plates together to get 1"?
I don't think it really matters what kind of material you use. I can hold my microphone to a wall and hear
what is happening in the next room...
What kind of amp do you have?
Mine is a Lockmaster, although the amp itself says Radio Shack.
It has 2 microphone and is stereo.

M.
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Mikeh727

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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:34 am

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Nice Trevor! That is REALLY cool. And that amp is pretty slick...let us know how you like it!

-Mike
I have an amazing grasp of the obvious. Beyond that, not so much.
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CPT1911

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Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:31 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

Altashot wrote:Great mock-up of a door.
Did you put the 2 plates together to get 1"


Thanks! No I went with the single 1/2 in plate.

Altashot wrote:I don't think it really matters what kind of material you use. I can hold my microphone to a wall and hear
what is happening in the next room...


Totally agree, Alta. Honestly, the more I've experimented, it seems like the difference in sound quality is NOT significant between the metal stand and the wood one. I have rubber banded the mic to the wood stand and found that it is about as good as the metal one. Even still, it's kind of cool to use the metal stand because it feels more like a SAFE!

Altashot wrote:What kind of amp do you have?


I went with the Taylor Technology EZ amp from MBAusa. I do not have a point of reference because it is the only product I have used, but I can't imagine getting much MORE sound out of an amp. The unit charges with a usb cable and the mic, battery, and amplifier are all encased in the same unit. So you simply plug in the headphones and you are good to go. Build quality seems great, but honestly the low relative price is what drew me to it. Perhaps there is a difference between this one and some of the others out there for $250+, but I will probably never be skilled enough to notice the difference. Also, customer service has been really good. I had a little issue with my headphones and they immediately shipped me a new pair. Pretty cool.
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Altashot

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Location: Western Canada

Post Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Lock Stand to Approximate Safe Door Material

I just checked out that amp. Looks pretty neat.
I used mine today on a vault door. 8" of steel and I could hear the CP's very clearly.
I could also hear any door in the establishment close, it actually picks up way more than I need.

M.

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