FAQ  •  My feedback  •  Feedback
UKLockpickers.co.uk Lockpicking supplies such as Lockpicks, tools, and more! COMMANDOLOCK.COM Military grade padlock systems lockpickshop.com A source for lockpicking supplies such as lockpicks, locksmith tools, and more!

LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

<<

CPT1911

Familiar Face

Posts: 170

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:05 pm

Location: Texas

Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:24 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

flywheel wrote:I won one at the end of last week. Should be here today!


So have you been playing with the LaGard 2M yet?

Here's my update. I received the EZ Amp from MBAusa.com and started experimenting with it. I do not have a metal lock stand built yet for this LaGard 2M, so I just rigged it so it rested on the lock body and started experimenting. I also tried it on my gun safe/floor safe for comparison. My opinion is that just resting it on the body was fairly comparable to putting it on a safe door after comparing the two. I want to test it on a metal stand, but this was a start.

Side note: using audio in conjunction with observations at the dial takes some getting used to. I found that I was getting too focused on what I was hearing and not really pairing it well with what I was seeing. The lock amp definitiely allows you to hear muthafuckin' everything going on inside the lock. It also is tricky to use because if the volume is adjusted to hear the light sound of contact points, it will sound like a hand grenade went off in your skull when you hit something loud like picking up a wheel when spinning aggressively. Ouch.

So I had hoped that amplification would allow me to more accurately determine the exact moment on the dial when the fence makes contact with the wheel pack. My hope was that it would require a TINY bit more dial rotation to pull the fence to the wheels when a gate was under the fence...No dice. There is no difference, folks. And I do not need to rig up any wires or rods to tell me in this case. I got really minute in how I read the dial (actually splitting the white line into three sections) and there is no difference. Think about the mechanics of what we are hoping will happen. We are talking about detecting the extra thousandth of an inch that the fence will drop when it's over a gate AFTER that movement is translated through levers and springs and pivots and the dial. The differential is not detectable at the dial. I would LOVE for someone to prove me wrong but I am convinced.

Next, I looked at our "sound signature" theory. Recalling that many of you correctly identified gates in my video based only on sound, I hoped that the amp would help me hear even more. I am not as convinced that this won't work, but my initial impression is that the unaided ear allowed me to hear more subtle tone changes. Yes, the amp made those tone changes LOUDER but I didn't really feel like I was taking in MORE good information, just more volume. I will keep trying. I am eager to see if anything changes when the lock is mounted on metal.

As it presently stands, I feel like I am back at the drawing board. For those of you who have a 3332 in your collection, please let me know if you come up with something!

Trevor
<<

flywheel

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 650

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:08 pm

Location: USA

Post Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

That quote is from easy-e. I do not have a 2M yet. Ebay patrons seem to love that lock.

But, if you could just go ahead and solve the 2M (and tell us how) before I get mine...that would be great. :D

Keep spinning and good luck!
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

Appreciate the update on this Trevor.
And even though success still eludes you... you're PLOWING ahead
and most certainly breaking new ground for everyone!! Exciting stuff!
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

Gratefuldeadbolt

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 68

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:15 am

Location: Ontario Canada

Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:03 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

wow what a great thread! What struck me with the most potential was the audio portion. As soon as I saw the video posted of the trial runs through every 10 numbers I watched and listened and without having cheated by reading ahead I was certain that the variance I heard was on the number 30... I am not sure yet if I hear the differece at 50. Now I am really really excited... because I know I heard the differece at 30 on wheel 2....
So that being said... I have to tell you I too picked up an audio EZ AMP at MBA. (lol - they are probably trying to figure out why a sudden sales increase on the ez-amps... they even offered a sale on them which I missed ;( oh well.)

After playing with the amp for a bit I tend to agree, it has its limitations at providing MORE USABLE information vs just MORE VOLUME.

Now combine the two observations with a little knowledge of hearing, that some people so not respond to certain frequencies as others do... note I clearly heard a difference at 30 when others heard the one at 50.

perhaps it is time to swap out the earbuds with a patchcord into a computer sound processer that can analyse the audo with much better filtration / tone calculators and pitch adjusters etc

I imagine an audo filter that can take a given fixed frequency ... set it as the 0 mark and any variations lower in pitch are exponencially amplified in like direction....using a sort of square of distance type law.

The further away from the fixed sound it moves... the filter will exponentially create a lower or higher sound for the listener.

GREAT WORK SO FAR....

Now I need to aquire a 3332 for myself to work along with this project!
<<

Gratefuldeadbolt

User avatar

Contributor
Contributor

Posts: 68

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:15 am

Location: Ontario Canada

Post Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

I just had another interesting thought on sound /audio propagation. I would be quite amused to see what would result if we hooked up 2 or more ez-amps (stereo / quadrophic) on the door of a safe and input all ... say 4, line inputs into a scope with different color traces for data logging. I can't help but wonder if the variations we hear would be more discernable through comparing multiple audio pathways in the same way that stereovision is able to percieve that extra sense of depth?
<<

LockManipulator

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 593

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

Location: Florida, US

Post Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:09 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

Just ordered one so I'll be trying various methods mentioned and posting about my experiences when I get it! :D
<<

escher7

Active Member

Posts: 696

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:20 am

Location: Canada

Post Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

I am not a safe guy although I understand the basic manipulation techniques. May be irrelevant but here are a couple of quotes I picked up on the web:

From a safe forum:
The techniques Jeff (Sitar) uses to open safes have been thwarted with the newer Group 2M locks that UL started to require on all TL safes in the 2001 retest cycle. These locks have additional measures that prevent the detection of the contact points, the key to manipulation. FYI... RSC rated safes still only require Group II locks, but the newer one have some of the features of the 2M locks like false gates.

From the MBA store re the Edge amplifier:
Next we added an automatic internal gain control that helps prevent constant adjustment or excessive headphone output levels. Finally, we incorporated a Record output which can be used with a spectrum analyzer for the ultimate“Edge” when developing techniques against 2M or higher locks

These are older comments but suggest that standard manipulation techniques do not work, but maybe analyzing the sound as suggested above might be the key.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 56

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Wed May 27, 2015 3:20 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

Are there new idea about 3332 manipulation?
<<

LockManipulator

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 593

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

Location: Florida, US

Post Wed May 27, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

kerti wrote:Are there new idea about 3332 manipulation?


I'm still yet to test out my latest idea i've had for a while. I didn't have an audio amp before but I just got one. Unfortunately, now I don't have a LaGard 3332 anymore. Life likes to joke with me it seems.
<<

kerti

Familiar Face

Posts: 56

Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:48 am

Location: Ukraine

Post Fri May 29, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

:smile:
<<

madsamurai

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 325

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:09 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

So, a couple years late to this discussion, but I found it when looking to see what the difference in the 3332 was (found one on ebay for $10.50) and you guys totally intrigued me here, so I picked one up. Got it a few days ago and have been messing with it a little (need to mount it up to get serious, may do that tomorrow), but I can confirm there are distinctly different sounds when there are no gates, 1 gate, and 2 gates... in my mind it's just a matter of rolling AWL and tapping the fence on the wheels until the sound brightens a little, 1&2AR until it brightens a bit more, and 1AL until it opens. On mine, no gates is a dull kind of ping, two gates almost rings like a bell, and 1 gate is somewhere in-between.

Has anyone else had any success with this theory yet?
<<

Oldfast

User avatar

OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

Posts: 4412

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:16 pm

Location: Michigan

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:21 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

madsamurai wrote:.....(found one on ebay for $10.50).....

10 bucks?! Why you son-of-a :gosplit:
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
<<

madsamurai

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 325

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:34 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

Oldfast wrote:
madsamurai wrote:.....(found one on ebay for $10.50).....

10 bucks?! Why you son-of-a :gosplit:

lol... sadly it came with a bent dial spindle, which promptly broke off when I tried to straighten it, so I had to buy a new dial... which of course cost more than I paid for the lock... however the lock itself is in primo shape, so I'm still happy :)

Speaking of, if anyone knows where I can buy just the spindle to repair this other dial (LaGard 1777), would love to know... it's a nice lookin' dial and otherwise in good shape, would hate to see it go to waste.
<<

LockManipulator

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 593

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

Location: Florida, US

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:58 am

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

madsamurai, were you able yo figure out any numbers in an unknown combo? I've finally got one again I can test on but it's not spinning smoothly so I have to figure out what's wrong and fix it first.
<<

madsamurai

User avatar

Active Member

Posts: 325

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 am

Location: Germantown, Ohio

Post Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:36 pm

Re: LaGard 3332 2M Frustration

Daggers wrote:madsamurai, were you able yo figure out any numbers in an unknown combo? I've finally got one again I can test on but it's not spinning smoothly so I have to figure out what's wrong and fix it first.

Not yet, got to find a board to mount it to... Hope to get to that later this afternoon.
PreviousNext

Return to Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]

Don't forget to visit our sponsors for all of your lockpicking needs!
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Grop
"CA Black" theme designed by stsoftware