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Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

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CPT1911

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:42 am

Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Just wanted share an experience that I am absolutely PUMPED about. My cousin is visiting for Thanksgiving and we had to make a run to Academy sporting goods. While he was browsing, a helpful sales guy directed me to the gunsafes. I wasn't sure what I was going to do when I found them. I expected to see all digital locks but there were several mechanical combo locks. I couldn't resist. My eyes basically glazed over and I walked up to the first one I saw and started spinning.

The first thing I noticed was the pressure of the situation gave me nice shot of adrenaline. My cousin sauntered up as I grabbed the dial. He is finishing up his training for a Tier 1 special operations unit. He's a Navy guy, I'm former Army, and I reeeeaally wanted to show some skills and open that fucker. He's seen my weird collection of practice locks strewn all over the house, so he knows what I've been up to. I didn't want to look like a chump, but I think he also had realistic expectations that this was probably a long shot. I looked at him and said, "gimme five, bro." He chuckled and walked off.

I immediately noticed a heightened awareness and sensitivity in my finger tips as I began to spin. I was waaaaay more focused than I am in training. I'd had a nice open on a 6730 earlier in the day in practice and I was feeling pretty confident. As I checked the first contact points, it felt like running into a brick wall and I knew from the feel that it was almost certainly a 6741. I knew the 1.25 increment dialing tolerance was on my side and I thought to myself, "holy shit...am I about to open this thing?"

I did an AWL approach starting at 0 and checking RCP only. I didn't have a lot of time so I decided to advance by 2.5, especially since the 6741 would help me get away with it. The lock read consistently through the first 10 readings which gave me confidence that I would see a noticeable drop at that first gate. I find it's harder to do it without a graph if the CP are kinda bouncing around along the way. I felt super in the zone and I was dialing precisely even though I could feel my hand shaking a little. At 42.5, it cratered by almost 0.5. I backed off to 36 and advanced by 1's checking LCP as well. I settled on 42 as the strongest indication. I was about 5 minutes in at this point.

I thought about assuming it was W3, but things were going so well I didn't want to blow it. I decided to isolate W3 so I set W1 and W2 in the forbidden zone at R8, and dialed W3 to L38. I advanced by 1's up to 46 and saw a little drop, but not much. I figured W1 and W2 at R8 might be shadowing a little so picked a random number and put W1 and W2 at R80 and checked W3 again. The contact region shrank considerably and I was 100% at that point that the gate was W3 @ L42. The realization that I had a personal best going made my hand start to shake a little more...

Next, I ran W1 & 2 RA, W3 @ L42. I've been practicing this move a lot recently after some of Oldfast's recommendations in my "I suck..." thread. I've eliminated extra turns and it goes waaaay faster now. At W1&2 @ R77.5, W3 @ L42, I fell off a cliff. I amplified and found the gate was at R77. I wanted to be sure it was on W2 (my assumption), so I dialed a few test combos with W2 in isolation. I think I did: L42-R73-L42, L42-R74-L42, and so on all the way to L42-R80-L42. My contact region remained at the baseline until W2 @ R76 to R79. I picked 77. At that point, I knew the combo was X-R77-L42.

I started running combos for W1. My wrist was starting to ache and my pulse was racing. I kept expecting my cousin to show up but he never did. By the time I hit 50, my confidence was starting to decline. Then...

OPEN: L54-R77-L42


My hand shot to the lever. I cranked the bolt work open, gave the door a slight tug, and turned swiftly to walk away to find my cousin. The door sort of drifted open behind me.

His response? "Dude, you should be able to open it. Have you seen how many fucking locks you have?"

What a dick!

I don't know what the total time was. He though it was about 8 minutes, but I am pretty sure it was in excess of 15. Either way, it was a personal best for me done under pressure and I am really satisfied with how much I have learned. This was a far cry from the 17 hours it took me to open my first one three months ago...

This was a case where everything just went well. The CPs were solid, things sort of happened in the right order, it all came together. I suspect I'll have trouble repeating this, certainly not in such a short time. But there is only one way to find out...I have a feeling they'll be seeing a lot of me at Academy. :smile:
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fgarci03

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:11 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

CPT1911, that was an amazing feat!
Reall, really cool! :mrgreen:

Your time was just awesome and how you managed to logically face this lock completely blows my mind!
Damn, I really need to start spinning again! :mrgreen:


Congratulations on your opening, and let this be a lesson that no one sucks at anything (Gordon, please don't say what you are thinking about saying! :fu: ), if time and effort are put into it! ;-)
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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Altashot

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Good job!
Excellent experience, working under pressure can sometimes make everything harder.
Keeping your cool is the way. Obviously you knew what you were doing, and, it worked!
Sometimes, it does seem to happen like magic but, in my book, it's called success.
8 to 15 minutes is really good too!
Again, good job.

Keep at it!

M.
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PhoneMan

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I've gone and said something stupid, haven't I?
I've gone and said something stupid, haven't I?

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:51 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Very cool! I need to get my safe with the LaGard dial and start playing with it. Now that I have a printer, I can print out the materials I have and start studying.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer

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Post Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:08 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

HahaaaaAAAA!!

Oh did I ever enjoy this. EVERY word of it. And you told it so nicely! I was almost shaking with you! lol
BEAUTIFULLY played Trevor. Just swell. You were tempted to divert a couple times.... but you held true.

CPT1911 wrote:...I thought about assuming it was W3, but things were going so well I didn't want to blow it...

That's hog-wash!!! I'm glad you didn't. On a sidenote; have you experimented
much at all on starting with an AWR rather than left? If so, whatta ya think?

CPT1911 wrote:...I wanted to be sure it was on W2 (my assumption), so I dialed a few test combos with W2 in isolation. I think I did: L42-R73-L42, L42-R74-L42, and so on all the way to L42-R80-L42. My contact region remained at the baseline until W2 @ R76 to R79. I picked 77. At that point, I knew the combo was X-R77-L42...

Great job on everything really. Finding the gates, amplifying, and especially wheel isolation. You got it down!
For isolating w2, I also like to park w1 where I initially found w3s' gate. Seems to make sense to me anyway.

CPT1911 wrote:...His response? "Dude, you should be able to open it. Have you seen how many fucking locks you have?" What a dick!

Haha, that's funny. You've obviously put your time in and it shined through with this one!
Fuckin'-a.... very exciting. Thanks for sharing it. Keep at it, and PLEASE keep posting :)
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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CPT1911

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Post Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:12 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Thanks everyone for the encouragement!

I've been dreading getting back on this thread, however, because I've got bad news :???: Just like I predicted, I've had TWO failures at Academy since I opened this Liberty. One on a Browning that felt like a 6730, and one on a Winchester safe that felt like a 6730 with tons of friction on it (like a Mosler 302 friction plug). In both cases, I had W3 nailed in less than 12 minutes, then spent the next thirty screwing the pooch trying to find W1 & 2. It's been a great a case study, however, of the value of training under pressure. You can pick almost anything that you think you do reasonably well, and then do it in a stressful environment, against the clock, in competition, etc. and all the weaknesses in your skill set will become immediately apparent. For me, it seems to be everything that happens AFTER I find and isolate the first gate. So that's the training goal for the weekend. I'll have my wife set a few combinations and give me W3 (or W2 for the one lock that always reads W2 first), and I can FINISH each manipulation from there. I'll then go back to Academy to finish what I started...

One of the things that I think happens is that my accuracy drops off on my readings as I start to fatigue. If the gate indication is only like .25 or something, I think I sometimes blow right by it because I am hoping to see some massive crater when I hit the second gate. One thing that seems to help is actually saying each CP reading out loud as I take the reading as this seems to help "graph" it in your head a little better. I want to start doing this as a naturally reflex when I start to feel fatigue creeping up on me which, as you would expect, starts to happen when I'm searching for the second gate.

Oldfast wrote:...On a sidenote; have you experimented much at all on starting with an AWR rather than left? If so, whatta ya think?


ABSOLUTELY! In fact, I find that it is surprisingly common for a lock to read WAAAAY better going AWR. The Winchester that I mentioned above didn't read at all AWL, so I hit it AWR and the gate magically appeared. I went back and checked around the gate AWL and it was invisible again. Like you mentioned in Manipulation #16 (Mosler 302), AWR seems a little more natural and faster because you rotate directly to the RCP on each reading. I always start AWL because it's usually W3 and I can avoid the pick-up difference conversion, but now I am starting to think it's just better to start AWR anyway. I've had trouble with pick up difference conversion on a few locks (notably Diebold and Mosler) because they are MUCH harder to feel...at least for me....

Oldfast wrote:Thanks for sharing it. Keep at it, and PLEASE keep posting :)


Don't worry, Mike....I'm fucking nuts now.
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PhoneMan

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I've gone and said something stupid, haven't I?
I've gone and said something stupid, haven't I?

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Post Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:13 am

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

I'm reading Matt Blaze's article, plus a few more on manipulation, looking forward to trying my hand on my LaGard and my floor safe lid. Too bad I already know the combos, may try and teach my GF how to change one.
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CPT1911

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Post Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:42 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

UPDATE: Just got back from Academy and got my second open. I had a great weekend and, as planned, I focused my practice on finding the second gate. I changed how I search for the second number as Oldfast suggested:

Oldfast wrote:For isolating w2, I also like to park w1 where I initially found w3s' gate. Seems to make sense to me anyway.


This was actually a huge breakthrough for me and, in testing over the weekend, worked better than the method I had been using. To clarify, here are the alternatives we were talking about....lets say you find W3's gate at L50. To scan for the next gate, you can either:

A) Move W1+W2 RA, W3 @ L50 (effectively looking at W1+W2 together and then do testing to confirm which of the two owns the gate when you find it), or

B) do as Oldfast suggested and park W1 @ L50, Scan W2 in iso, and of course park W3 @ L50.

I suspect the second technique works better because you at least know that W1 @ L50 was low enough to allow W3's gate to be found (not shadowing) and therefore you can take advantage of that. Otherwise, moving W1 and W2 together, you introduce the variable that W1 is changing each time--it might have a high point which throws your reading for W2 in some way or adds confusion along the way. Obviously, if you leave W1 @ L50 the whole time, you also have the advantage of knowing that any observed drop while scanning W2 MUST be W2's gate, not W1's....anyway... Here is what I was attacking:

photo 2.JPG


photo 3.JPG


So you'll recall that in my last visit, I found W3. Before continuing, I confirmed that L71 was still W3's gate...it was, so I was off to the races. I was feeling good!

I started out with W1 @ L71, W2 RA, W3 @ L71....I noted a nice drop immediately at W2 @ R98, but it dropped significantly and stayed that way for like half the dial. I am familiar with that as a gate signature, but every time I've assumed that is a gate signature, I've been sorely disappointed...I've never actually seen it happen! So rather than take the bait and hope for the best, I decided to try to use the low point as an advantage in case W1 @ L71 was still shadowing W2. So I set W1 at the known low point at L98, and again took W2 RA with W3 @ L71. NOTHING.

I was feeling a little bummed at this point after things had gone so well in practice. I also thought about this thread and didn't want to report another DEFEAT! I decided to go back to my old method of W1+W2 RA, W3 @ L71. There were a few places where I thought I was picking something up--I ultimately ended up going from 60 down to 40 by 1's but felt like I was chasing ghosts. There was nothing legit. I'd taken W2 for a spin three times at this point, over 130 CP readings when considering the amplification. I'd been standing in front of the safe display, creeping people out for like 45 minutes. One little dweeb employee even cruised by at said "Safecracker" in a voice full of sarcasm. I wasn't pissed because I had to agree I looked like a tool. I was kinda feelin like shit. :???:

So, I took a step back and thought about it. It occurred to me that some locks read great in one direction by reveal nothing going the other direction. I've used this weakness when working on W3, but I've never tried it with W2. I decided to try scanning W2 going LEFT instead of RIGHT as I had in the last three fucking spins. I converted W3 @ L71 to R70.5. I went at it again with W1 @ R70.5, W2 LA, W3 @ R70.5. At R70.5-L32.5-R70.5 W2's gate jumped off the dial and kicked me in the dick!

I converted and refined the reading and found the center of the gate for W2 was actually at R32.

OPEN: L48-R32-L71


photo 1.JPG


photo 4.JPG


Lessons Learned: As I have learned recently in practice, it sometimes takes lots of VOLUME to reveal the combo. To say it another way, when I started manipulating I was fixated on the ass bleeding detail of reading every CP to the tenth of a cunt hair. It would literally take me an hour to go AWL once around. Now that I am faster at spinning and accurately stopping, I've discovered that finding what will make the lock READ is half the battle. The most accurate readings in the world don't help if you are going AWL and the lock only reads AWR, or if a gate is being shadowed by another wheel. I'm better off doing an extra trip in a different direction, or with a wheel parked in a different place, if it allows me to spot a LEGIT gate indication, versus a "oh maybe that's it" that is wrong. This was a great case where it just took lots of spinning to make the thing spill it's guts. Great learning experience.
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Oldfast

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OldddffAASSTT the Spin Master Extraordinaire and American Lock Slayer
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Post Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Gettin' good man, GET... N'... GOOD!

Gonna read through it once more tomorrow
" Enjoy the journey AS MUCH as the destination."
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Altashot

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Post Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:58 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Awesome!
Another successful open up!
Nice write up too, you have an animated way of telling it that makes it a riot to read.
This can also be seen with that last picture...
Fu*k you bit*h!!!

That employee calling you a safe cracker, did you show him afterwards you got it opened?
That'd shut him up. I love when people have to "eat" their sarcasm...

M.
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CPT1911

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Post Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:21 am

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Altashot wrote:That employee calling you a safe cracker, did you show him afterwards you got it opened?
That'd shut him up. I love when people have to "eat" their sarcasm...


Haha, actually a very funny question! Throughout the manipulation, I was fucking surrounded by people. The smartass dweeb, multiple other employees shelving items nearby, kids running amok pounding on safes, random shoppers, etc. I think the dweeb went by like four times!

But....when I opened the damn thing, I sorta looked over my shoulder with a triumphant gleam in my eye and...chirp...chirp....crickets....

It was like a neutron bomb had gone off in the fucking store and every one was dead. The dweeb was nowhere to be seen, the shoppers were all in the back of the store, the rest of the employees must have taken a communal smoke break...my audience litterally disappeared the second I opened it. :shock:

So typical and so hilarious!!!
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GWiens2001

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Post Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:45 am

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Did you leave it open for them to find?

Gordon
Just when you think you've learned it all, that is when you find you haven't learned anything yet.
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CPT1911

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Post Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:31 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Gordon,

I thought about it, but then decided the more ethical move was to lock it back up. I saw a lot of kids running around and I didn't want one to get locked inside, or, if I locked it open, pinch the crap out of their little fingers. So I locked it back up.

They'll have another chance to watch me crack one, I can assure you... :smile:

Trevor
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RoronoaDB0

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Post Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:09 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Great job man... :pimpmofo:

Your posts have been good inspiration, Ive been interested in Manipulation for a 'lil while now and just got my first lock.. (And two more cause lock hunting on eBay is addicting...LoL)

As soon as I have them mounted ill post my progress...
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CPT1911

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Post Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:30 pm

Re: Walked into Academy and Opened a Liberty Safe!

Hi RoronoaDB0,

Can't tell you how much I appreciate it! The truth is, there are TONS of folks here who inspire me, so I am glad I could pass some of that on! You'll find that this is a uniquely positive, helpful community. Dig in to the Safes, Strongboxes & Combination Locks section. Lots of dedicated, analytical people who can help you be successful!

Good luck with manipulation. It is as addicting as buying locks on Ebay as you mentioned (I think I'm up to 14 now and I've only been at this since September!)

Trevor
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